My 997 Turbo drive impression

[Ti-Mike]

sorry guys but i used to have a 997 T and on the track the 997 T has not a chance against the R8

all the datas are highway issues but on the track well well
both cars same tires and both cars same kind of brakes only difference was the R8 has R Tronic and the 997 T was manual .
but the 997 T has the overboost even on the straight not a chance,

[Marrelius]

There may be faster cars. There may be better cars. But there are very few current cars that grab the attention as the R8 does. I get compliments (strangers, young (mostly young) and old coming up to me for a chat), thumbs ups etc. all the time. Yesterday two employees of my Ferrari dealer texted me that they saw me fly by and thought the car's awesome.. Another confirmation that the cars special is the way Porsche drivers try hard to ignore it (ha, ha, ha). And still, the other day there was a 997TT following me up to the petrol station and then took a closer look at the car when I went in to pay.

So what is the best car. I think it is a personal/individual choice. It is the car that gives you most satisfaction. And I for my part do not get excessive satisfaction by shaving off a few hundreds of seconds on the run from 0-100 or from extreme top speeds - regulations, law enforcement and heavy traffic simply do not allow me to enjoy this. I get enjoyment from the feeling of owning something special. And the the outside world keeps confirming to me that I'm owning something special. The R8 is the car I drive most of the time now..

[DeeRun]

I have both a 997 Turbo and a (new) R8 – mine arrived a few weeks ago after an 18 month wait! As you can see in the photo, my R8 is white with quartz grey sideblades and "2-tone" rims (in the same grey). I sent mine for a custom blood-red leather interior which added 3 months to delivery! Audi customization needs much improvement!

I've had the 997 for 8 months, and it's absolutely awesome. It's seriously fast; just press the pedal and you're up to ballistic speeds without all the fuss that seems to accompany Italian supercars (driving a modern Ferrari is like staring at a dash full of Christmas lights!). Unfortunately, because 911's have become so "common", people overlook this amazing car. Porsche engineers have "perfected" this machine yet again in their never-ending quest to develop this quirky rear-overhang layout. It's hard to fault this car "on-the-road". And if you spend more than 50% of your driving time on a track, then Porsche have variants to suit (GT3's, etc).

Performance, control surface "feel", ride, quality of construction, options & customization, etc, are all peerless. Even Ferrari's Carrozzeria Scaglietti Personalisation programme can't match Porsche's, and this is something Audi and "quattro Gmhb" need to address if they want to get their R-series cars up there with the competition (and there will be more R-series cars coming!).

The only area where the 997 version of the 911 has slackened is in the feel of the control surfaces. I think the 996 series (with steel disks) had the best control surface feel of any road car I've driven (I had a 996 Turbo): steering feel & response, throttle pedal pressure & travel, brake pedal servo assistance, feedback, etc, all close to perfect.

I've posted in a different thread about the optional 997 ceramic disks (also on my car) being very sensitive to brake pressure, and very "grabby", and asking if this was the same for R8 owners with the ceramic option. In the 997 it's almost impossible to moderate the initial brake "bite", and the fact that you have to think about it is already bad! Steering feel as also diminished, feeling a bit too heavy and dead around centre. Otherwise, the 997T is a hard act to follow.

So after a few weeks of back-to-back driving, my impressions of the 997T and R8 are this. Starting with design and equipment, I feel more anticipation getting into the R8; it looks and feels more special, has a great driving position and beautiful cabin, quality of switches, the angles of the rear haunches, sideblade design, etc. There are so many great design touches to this car. But no memory seats? Some of Audi's equipment omissions are very strange!

As for the driving, my 997T is Tiptronic (and my R8 R-tronic), now developed to the peak of autobox engineering. To be honest, all the millisecond-fast, "hard banging" into gear stuff is misguided for road use. What you want (road or track) is smooth gear changes with minimal (or no) torque/power interruption for maximum acceleration and minimum destabilization of the car. Which is good for driver comfort too! Porsche have had "PDK" in the wings for years, so I suppose you can't argue against them developing this for their road cars, but do we really need anything better than Tiptronic?

For all of you saying YES, then the R-tronic falls way short of the mark for "auto-manuals". Ferrari set the bar here with their F1, and R-tronic is frankly awful! Not quite as bad as E-Gear, but seeing as they come from the same holding company, I think VAG needs to talk to Porsche and get DSG or PDK into the the R8 and V10 asap! How can Ferrari's box be so smooth and fuss-free, whereas the R-tronic is like being driven by someone who's just passed their driving test! And all those saying you have to "feather" this, and "rev it" to that, and "get used to it", etc… well, we're just trying to make ourselves feel better. R-tronic is way off the mark for best auto-manual in the market. And as Audi have been such pioneers in automovite technology (turbo, Quattro, aluminum chassis construction, etc), I would have thought they'd have come out with a genre-changing approach to auto shifting.

And the answer is not to buy a manual; we don't hear these drivers complaining about anti-lock brakes, traction & launch control, ESP, etc!

R8 control surface feel is also lacking. Steering feel is Audi's best effort to date, but lacking a bit of "liveliness". Braking feel is not great, being over-servoed and grabby at the point of initial bite. And this on steel disks – I'd hate to try the ceramics that I was going to fit, seeing as ceramics tend to be even more sensitive! Brake feel improves dramatically when applied at speed, but again, if Porsche, Lambo and Ferrari can give us a nice firm brake pedal with loads of feel at all speeds, why can't Audi in the R8?

Same goes for the throttle. It's slightly too heavy, and yet too responsive in Sport mode, which I fear marketing people think gives us the impression of "throttle response", but it doesn't! (This tendency to "jump" off the line once you touch the throttle is something I've noticed in all Audi's.) The throttle also needs too much thought to smooth out R-tronic's computer changes, but that's more a gearbox issue!

Audi make Le Mans winning cars, they employ world-class racing drivers, and the R8 is a clean-sheet design; they should have defined this area of control surface experience. This is one part of the car we experience 100% of the time at all speeds. It gives a driver so much pleasure. And Audi has not engineered this as obsessively as they have the car's design and manufacture.

But where the R8 really excels is handling. The chassis' initial turn-in is beautifully positive, without any lightness or "float" (like a 911). Although it takes only an instant, it "sets" into its front suspension very progressively (probably because it's a little softer than Lambo and Ferrari equivalents), giving you confidence to load up the front-end more aggressively early into the turn, even on the brakes. You can really "lean" on this car from very early in the turn, and feed-in steering lock and/or power with great confidence. You cannot say the same for many other mid-engined cars, and certainly not with the 997, which remains very fidgety – hardcore 911 drivers are addicted to this "twilight zone"! Once you're "set" into a turn in a 997, you can use the massive traction from its rear-overhanging engine to accelerate out of a corner, but in the R8 you're at this point in the corner sooner, and Quattro traction makes up for any axle load advantage when you get the power down.

It's this handling feel that gives the R8 a slight overall win over the 997T (and Gallardo and F430). The R8 has a beautifully compliant chassis setup. Is this the magnetic dampers? Or the suspension layout and geometry? Maybe because it isn’t sprung too stiffly? It's probably all of this and the state-of-the-art spaceframe. Handling feel is where the R8 excels, and you notice this from the moment you turn hard into your first bend!

[utah]

Nice in depth comparison. It will be interesting to see if your impressions of either car change as you have more seat time in the R8.

[geffers]

Dee Run

Having come from a 997 to the R8 as well I can only agree with your observations. One thing you didn't mention tho' is the weight of the R8. If only Audi had spent more time and money making this car, say 10% lighter, imagine the ride, handling and performance that we'd have.

[Ti-Mike]

Hey Geffers, i totally agree on the weight issue, less electronic toys and 10% lighter, wow........

A GT version of the R8 would be nice, with a max weight of 1350 - 1400 KG

[wolfie]

DeeRun where are you located? The photo reminds me of Vancouver.

[Marrelius]

Don't know. if it's about pure performance than a Corvette Z06 or a Nissan GTR would do, modest investments in both cases. So it cannot be performance alone. Not in today's world where such a big number of car makers can build cars with excellent performance. And traffic jams and police spoil your spins. So its more than performance and lap times. I just know that most people (girls in particular) cannot differentiate a Carrera from a Turbo (many girls actually think the spoiler's ugly). And taking a 997 TT for a drive does not cause any ripples in my neck of the woods. But the R8 makes people, young and old, come up to me and chat - so many people think its special. And most do not know anything about performance figures..

[Jas667]

I dont understand why so many people are using the fact that people look at them and give thumbs up when they are in the R8 as an argument over the turbo?? Surely you buy a car for yourself not the reaction of others??
I prefer the R8 because it is just more fun and I smile every time I see it. The Turbo, though, is much much faster. When I test drove it my dad came out in his Turbo so I could get a feel of the difference. Straights - See ya later turbo, it was off! Twisties - not so pronounced but it was still getting away quicker than I thought it would/should.
Must say I envy the people that can have both! I have to settle for begging my Dad for a shot of his now and again :-)

[Marrelius]

Yes. You’re right. One should not care what others think. But it’s like going out with a pretty girl. Although you’re smitten with her, you also enjoy the hungry looks she attracts from others. Same with cars. If you look for raw performance only, there are quite a few cars for little money that can deliver this to you (GT-R, Corvette Z06, Lotus Super Seven etc.). And still they don’t/will not sell like hotcakes. Because there is more to it, like comfort, exclusivity, visual drama etc.. I for my part have reached a stage where more power in a car is not a must – although more power is always welcome (and more readily available, as any big motoring company can now build cars that do naught to sixty in less than 4.5 seconds). And although I’m still religiously devoted to Porsche (one of the magic brands you grow up with, and buy once you can afford it, just like Rolex that also has become a common commodity every barkeeper and hairdresser nowadays owns). The first car I owned was a red, 1990 Carrera 4 (second hand). Then I “upgraded” myself continuously within the 911 family. Until I had miles more power than actually was necessary (I do not do tracks, only drives to work and to homes in mountains and Mediterranean). And although I knew that I had great cars (small army of 911), I at the same time had the feeling I was driving a bloody Volkswagen (“Volkswagen” translated to English means “People’s Car”). By making Porsche successful, Wiedekin made the 911 a common commodity –you now find one standing in every street. Which makes any 911 no more exclusive than any other fast car. And this is not enough for me. I also want to have the feeling I’m driving something special, exclusive. You may call it vanity. Whatever. There is more to it than speed and performance.