CFRP is the Future

[R8Spyderman]

Much more extensive use of CFRP will trickle down from supercars to everyday cars as the cost to produce pieces out of CFRP come way down. So it's logical that all new models of supercars selling for $150K or more will have a monocoque all-CF chassis, and that means the next generation of R8 (assuming there is one) will have to utilize a CFRP chassis so as to keep weight down and keep competitive in the speed race. Lexus has created weaving looms that can weave or knit 3-dimensional frameworks wholly out of CF which is later put on a form and combined with plastic. That's one step closer to mass-production of CFRP parts so I hope Audi is also looking beyond aluminum (have you checked out the weight of the all-aluminum A8? Aluminum isn't the answer) and into new ways of making CFRP parts affordable as Lexus is doing:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry9uiP2I6kQ"]YouTube - 2011 Lexus "The Hard Way" - Material Breakthroughs[/ame]

[toecutter]

Agree. Look over at the Lamborghini Aventador released yesterday. There is a huge investment in CF technology by VW/Audi/Lambo and weight will come down quicker than horsepower will go up. That is also the future of the Gallardo and the R8.

[ADV.1 Matt]

A few years back didn't CF get really expensive due to the defense industry gobbling all of it up?

If so - has the source or production capacity for the material increased to meet new demand by the auto industry?

[R8Spyderman]

Could be. I think the big expense is how much hand work is required to form pieces using current technology. So, when you see how Lexus is weaving and knitting shapes that stretch to fit around the form, it becomes clear that cost reduction will come with automation and less hand crafting as seen in this video:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFNaoklYELY"]YouTube - How It's Made Carbon Fiber Car Parts[/ame]

[knihc2008]

Could be. I think the big expense is how much hand work is required to form pieces using current technology. So, when you see how Lexus is weaving and knitting shapes that stretch to fit around the form, it becomes clear that cost reduction will come with automation and less hand crafting as seen in this video:

Not to mention the new carbon fiber technology previewed by the Sesto Elemento concept and the new Aventador is less precision weaving and more just a hamburger-style compressing of randomly shaped pieces of carbon together, which is supposed to be easier, cheaper and stronger, apparently? Or am I understanding it wrong?

[R8Spyderman]

Not to mention the new carbon fiber technology previewed by the Sesto Elemento concept and the new Aventador is less precision weaving and more just a hamburger-style compressing of randomly shaped pieces of carbon together, which is supposed to be easier, cheaper and stronger, apparently? Or am I understanding it wrong?

I've seen the Aventador's monocoque chassis made out of CFRP but haven't seen how it's actually constructed into that shape. Sebring Silver, have you seen the chassis being made in pics or in video which leads you to believe they are using random shapes of CF? If so, please post them.

Also, if anyone comes across a video of how carbon nano tubes are created and then spun into long threads which are then woven into CF fabric, please post that, too.

[M3R8]

A few years back didn't CF get really expensive due to the defense industry gobbling all of it up?

If so - has the source or production capacity for the material increased to meet new demand by the auto industry?

Probably a lot was gobbled up by the defense industry but a good chunk of it, if not the lion's share was amazingly eaten up by Boeing for their Dreamliner.

"Each 787 contains approximately 35 short tons of carbon fiber reinforced plastic (CFRP), made with 23 tons of carbon fiber." insane.

[R8Spyderman]

It sure seems like a lot of work to make a little bit of carbon nanotube dust which then gets spun into thread which is then woven into fabric, so I doubt that it will ever be as cheap to produce as hydrocarbon-based plastics but advances in production methods will surely bring the cost way down and eventually we'll see CF everywhere.

Interesting fact I heard on a video: the weight of the CFRP body on an F1 car is 80% CFRP and the 20% balance is the weight of the paint and stickers on the car, so you can imagine just how light the body is if it is only 4 times the weight of paint!

Here is a series of 5 videos about how carbon nanotubes are formed and how they are used to create CF.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3lRDG1HAmA&p=A03FB6F957435F09"]YouTube - Nanoseries 1/5: What is a carbon nanotube?[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4VTfgaKLAM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL"]YouTube - Nanoseries 2/5 : How are carbon nanotubes made?[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUUVTiVHjLw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL"]YouTube - Nanoseries 3/5 : How can we see carbon nanotubes?[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8h6yhvBZII&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL"]YouTube - Nanoseries 4/5: Where are nanotubes used?[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzdTRlw2Gng&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL"]YouTube - Nanoseries 5/5: Carbon nanoforms[/ame]

[mngolfer]

A hamburger type of molding compound is called bulk moulding compound (BMC) or sheet molding (SMC). Many of the Corvette parts are made with this random CF or glass fiber technology. I worked on SMC and BMC technology for 12 years back in the '90s.

3M has a technology to reduce the weight of SMC or BMC by ~30% without a change in mechanical properties or cost. 3M had 14 low-density SMC parts on the Corvette back in the 90s. This technology may become a larger part of automotive manufacturing as fuel prices continue to rise. Aluminum has a specific gravity of 2.71g/cc. Heavyweight SMC has a specific gravity of ~1.85g/cc. Low-density SMC has a SG of ~1.30g/cc.

3M had the highest strength to weight ratio CF parts with their epoxy prepregs. They were used to make the front nose cone of Nuclear Submarines and insulated rail joints for trains. These were uni-directional, cross ply or bias ply CF materials. I think 3M exited this business because nobody would pay their pricing.

A very large producer of Carbon fiber, not parts, is Zoltek. http://www.zoltek.com/ The owner is the only person I know that belongs to Augusta National Golf Club (Think the Masters)

[LAT]

What are the implications to body shop and repair industry and of course our friends in the auto insurance industry.
What is CFRP like to repair or replace?