Targa or drop top?

[Paul]

Single option poll.

Having been surfing about today I came across the following AudiWorld thread ... click here ... so I thought it would be a good idea to run a poll here ...

So ... do you think an open top R8 should be ... a Targa with one, or two, removable roof panels ... or should it be a Cabriolet ...

[Paul]

Personally ... I would go for a Targa style R8 ... keeping the engine cover and final section of the roof ... which would mean less structural weight increases to maintain chassis rigidity ... as opposed to a full folding roof which would ... more than likely (imho) completely ruin the lines of the R8 ... besides where would the roof fold away to ... ... and just how much more additional weight would be added by the structural strengthening required to maintain good chassis rigidity when making it in to a Cabriolet ... ... trying to fold a hard top roof would … imho … be almost impossible on the R8 if it’s clean lines are to be maintained ... which I think is essential.

The R8 is meant to make use of 'lightweight' design ... even though it is no lightweight itself ... making the R8 into a Cabriolet would no doubt add more weight to it ... which it carries more than enough of ... however, making it into a Targa style open top ... would see less weight added ... which has to be a good thing!

The Le Mans Racing Prototype R8 has an open ****pit ... where the roof line (if you can call it that) behind the driver helping the aerodynamics ... I don't know for sure ... but I would imagine a Targa top is more aerodynamic than a Cabriolet ... when they are being used with the roof panel off or roof down ... please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[harjitmann]

Agree with you 100% here Paul. Targa all the way!

[R8ROX]

One targa top. Choice of glass or hardtop would be nice. But where to stow it??? Maybe the bonnet.

[Paul]

One targa top. Choice of glass or hardtop would be nice. But where to stow it??? Maybe the bonnet.

I like the idea of a single removable panel ... but storage then becomes a little tricky, depending on how big they make the removable panel.

Personally ... and for a couple of reasons ... I like the idea of two removable panels ... with a central section running from above the rear view mirror to the back of the roof that would remain in place, say 4" to 6" wide ... 10cm to 15cm.

Having a central not removable section would mean the following:
1. Interior roof light and courtesy reading lights could still remain in place.
2. Reduces additional strengthening elsewhere in the chassis as a result of making the roof a targa ... the central section would help to a minor degree with chassis regidity.
3. Smaller removable panels ... making for easier storage ... possibly behind the seats ... possibly under the rear window covering the engine bay ... or if push comes to shove they could go under the bonnet.
4. Smaller panels means they will be lighter and easier to handle when removing them ... meaning one person can do it rather than making it a two person job.

I think it is a bit of a 'no brainer' really ... a single roof panel could be heavy, making it tricky to remove ... if it is not too heavy it could still be tricky to remove single handed due to the size of it ... without having (yet) looked at the dimensions of the roof and where a single panel might be stored ... I think you would be 'very restricted' on where it could go ... having two smaller panels makes lots of sense ... see the four points listed above for starters ... and another thing Audi need to consider when looking for a place to store them ... the primary luggage space is limited enough under the bonnet ... putting two roof panels in their will restrict it still further ... the ideal place to store the removable panels would therefore be under the rear window above the engine ... providing cooling and engine performance is not hindered to any unacceptable degree ... that way no luggage space will be lost if you want to remove the roof when you are on a weekend away, off to the golf course, or on a shopping trip ... following that then behind the seats is probably the next best place for them to go ... this would make the storage a breeze as you wouldn't even need to open up the bonnet, or the boot.

Anyway, I'm sure plenty of people will disagree ... but a Targa need to be simple, practical, easy to remove and ideally not impact luggage space ... for now, that's the end of my 2p worth ...

[L3MAN]

I agree that some form of a targa top would be the best way to proceed, personally a one piece panel would not be a problem if made in a composite material. I had a Fiat X/19 many years ago and the roof panel was a doddle to use. Split roof panels give greater sealing problems as well.

Storage behind the seats would be the most natural place so as to not loose what little luggage space their is. Possibly this could be automated as well.

Another couple of options to consider:-

Slideback glass panel over the engine bay just like the recent Porsche targas, again this could be electric and still retain the view of the V8 / V10. The glass panel could be light sensitive as well just like the Mercs.

Last idea, an electric roll back fabric panel which would be stored in what would become the roll over bar. With some engineering skills at the Audi think tank a completely new system could be developed which would work at the touch of a button and not compromise space, weight and rigidity.

We could just keep dreaming up idea after idea..................

Could way to kill the days before we know when we are going to get our R8's

[Paul]

I agree that some form of a targa top would be the best way to proceed ... ... ... Split roof panels give greater sealing problems as well.

Glad to see more people opting for a Targa ... I would expect that with Audi's attention to fit detail ... and modern materials ... leaky split panels would not become an issue.

Storage behind the seats would be the most natural place so as to not loose what little luggage space their is.

I agree that storage behind the seats would be better than ... using the under bonnet storage area ... although I still think storing the panel(s) above the engine is the best place.

Possibly this could be automated as well.

Automation would be nice ... but at what expense ... weight is the first issue that springs to mind ... especially if you are automating it with motors.

Slideback glass panel over the engine bay just like the recent Porsche targas, again this could be electric and still retain the view of the V8 / V10. The glass panel could be light sensitive as well just like the Mercs.

Not too familiar with the latest Porsche Targas ... although a light sensitive glass could be a nice trick ... although from a weight perspective ... maybe Carbon Sigma roof panels ... strong and light ...

Last idea, an electric roll back fabric panel which would be stored in what would become the roll over bar. With some engineering skills at the Audi think tank a completely new system could be developed which would work at the touch of a button and not compromise space, weight and rigidity.

Now you're really pushing the boat out here ... ... I suspect that to maintain the nice roof lines with a roll back roof might prove problematic ... spooling into an area where the roll over bar may be located is a neat idea though.

We could just keep dreaming up idea after idea..................

Maybe if we patent them ... we could earn some pennies if Audi wanted to use one of them ...

[R8ROX]

Having a central not removable section would mean the following:
1. Interior roof light and courtesy reading lights could still remain in place.
2. Reduces additional strengthening elsewhere in the chassis as a result of making the roof a targa ... the central section would help to a minor degree with chassis regidity.
3. Smaller removable panels ... making for easier storage ... possibly behind the seats ... possibly under the rear window covering the engine bay ... or if push comes to shove they could go under the bonnet.
4. Smaller panels means they will be lighter and easier to handle when removing them ... meaning one person can do it rather than making it a two person job.

I'm kinda shocked to here this from a fellow NSX owner. I have a '96 NSX-T and have no problem removing the roof on my own. Honda had enough foresight to design, not one, but two places to store the roof (over the engine compartment or in the trunk). I'm sure Audi engineers have already designed a storage spot for a removable roof. It would be silly not to consider this during initial design of the car.

As with any targa top, the body has to be stiffened in other ways to compensate. This was easily overcome in the NSX, and will be the case with the R8.

I'm sure you'll see a lot of NSX guys popping up on this forum given the commonality of these two cars.

[Paul]

I'm kinda shocked to here this from a fellow NSX owner.

lol ... much as I love the Targa top NSX ... I wasn't able to find a suitable one when I was buying ... hence I ended up with a coupe ... and I haven't had the opportunity to try taking one off/putting one on myself ... so I'm not in a position to offer comment on what an NSX roof is like to use.

I was looking at the Targa top from varying perspectives ... and came to the conclusion that ... leaving a central bar in the roof between the driver and passenger might help from certain design points ... i.e. interior lights/roof mounted electronics, chassis strength, storage of panel(s), etc ... also it would make the R8 a little different from other Targa models with a single panel ... I'd be happy with a single panel Targa ... although I would be just as happy with a two panel Targa and central brace section left in the roof ... Honda did do a nice job of making a storage area in the engine bay area ... I would expect Audi to be able to accomplish something just as effectively.

I think the NSX roof is smaller than the R8 ... meaning a single panel for the R8 would be somewhat bigger ... but, as long as a single roof panel on the R8 is not too big to make it tricky to handle ... especially when you take into account those people not endowed with large amounts of physical strength, or extra long arms ... then no problem ... but, if someone who is only 5'6" (168cm) and of average build and strength for that height can't handle a single roof panel ... then two panels is the route to go ... imho.

However, with today’s lightweight materials ... Carbon Fibre please ... I'm sure a single panel could be made light enough for pretty much anyone to handle on their own ... even if the panel is 20% bigger than an NSX roof panel.

[Paul]

I'm sure you'll see a lot of NSX guys popping up on this forum given the commonality of these two cars.

I suspect you are quite right ... with you owning a '96 Targa and me owning a '96 coupe ... there are at least two NSX owners here looking park an R8 next to their NSX in the garage.