R8: the quest to improve braking, next step

[Maverick]

The limitations on the stock R8 brakes have been discussed in detail here. The same discs are used right and left sides leading to possible differences in cooling. Audi's R8 project manager claims this is not the case after their testing but in the next breath claims that a service life of 19k miles from a stock set of rotors and pads is 'state of the art'. I've supercharged my car (VF engineering) and I do occasionally take it on track. On track the brakes really get hot as any of you who do track days will know. With the supercharger added and the extra pace before the corners the brakes just don't feel 'confident'.

After an unsuccessful trial with the Girodisc on the front of my R8 (for some reason the discs were warped within 500 miles, I can only assume they were provided that way as they were broken in completely following manufacturer instructions, investigations still ongoing there) I've been searching for an alternative that is more cost effective than dropping a fortune on the carbon ceramic solution. Carbon ceramics are clearly the best but if you don't order them at purchase of the car the cost is prohibitive.

I've now purchased a full set of the Stasis / Alcon manufactured rotors and am about to install these this week. I'm going to use Pagid blue pads with them as I've had good experience with these as a blend suitable for road use without too much noise but grippier than stock for the occasional track day. The cost is more like Audi stock pricing but with the promise of improved braking (390 mm vs. 365 mm stock front rotor) and improved cooling. The cooling grooves are optimized right and left sides and the air gaps between discs are significantly larger than on the stock discs (see attached specifications). Incidentally a good friend is running a Ruf 911 GT2 bumped to 630 hp and Ruf used Alcon metallic brake rotors on his car so this is some indication that they are a quality product with a good reputation.

I'm installing these this week and am scheduled to do a short trip to Germany next week including a day or two at the Nurburgring. Just thought I'd update anyone interested on my plans in case anyone else wants to follow suit. More after my trip.

[swansailor]

FWIW: I have just ordered the same upgrade ...we'll have to compare notes :-)

[harrison]

I seriously doubt that you will find a pad suitable for race and street use...other than the Ceramics. Face it, you will have to switch to a true race pad for the track and switch back to your favourite street pad, which might be the OEMs. OEM is my favourite street pad while I prefer the Carboteck Xp12s up front and the Xp10s out back...PURE HEAVEN !

[Maverick]

Well, I worry about switching pads back and forth. It seems as the pads bed in that they groove up like the discs. If you switch the high points on the pads may not match the rotor grooves and this can cause localized high temp. points on the rotor leading to warp! I think this is what happened with the Girodisc I tried. I've done the swap for the last year in USA on my 911 Turbo, Pagid yellows for track, stock for street, but rotors are now crapped out and need turning / or replacing. Didn't have the energy to do it in Texas a few weeks ago. I'm suspicious that swapping back and forth may not be a good strategy. I accept there is a compromise but the Pagid yellows on my 911 squeal a lot on the street and never get hot enough to work well there. I understand the problem with the ceramics is feel - there isn't any brake feel when braking. A friend with a GT3 said all the porsche owners he knows swaps em for metallic discs....

[Europrice]

Swapping pads should cause almost no issues. You should stay within pad manufacturer and inquire whether the compounds are compatible, usually they are within the manufacturer, but sometimes they are not. When you properly bed a set of brakes you put a layer of the pad material onto the rotor (usually a bluish) color on a new rotor face. This is actually what is bonding to the pad when you are braking, bonding and breaking bonds repeatedly at a molecular level. If you swap to a different pad that has a compound which is incompatible with the bedded material on the rotor face it can actually lengthen stopping distances or smear one compound unevenly over another. I've swapped pads to go on and off track an uncountable time, so have so many others, without issue. I would not worry a second about ridges or grooves causing an uneven heat issue that would lead to any warping. If you are concerned when switching pads you can also bed the setup again before you head out to track and that will put the same grooves into the pads, plus if done properly lay a new layer of bedded pad material onto the rotor face with a compound you know will be compatible with the freshly installed pads.

Cheers,

[desperado]

I just received the Brembo GT kit for the front of the R8. It sounds very similar to the STaSIS/Alcon with 380mm two piece slotted discs, so will likewise report back here once I get a chance to install them and try on the road and on the track.

I do mark the location on my pads when I remove them, so they can go back on the same disc in the same position. I use a wax crayon to write on the backing plate. On the fronts I use three letters, for example LIT for Left Inner Top, on the rears two letters, for example RO for Right Outer.
While I've considered the idea of rotating the pads to even out the wear, it has turned out that this has never been necessary - I have always had extremely even pad wear, and very little to no grooving.

[Roci]

I had previously replaced my OEM pads with Pagid Yellows (on OEM rotors). Definitely a more aggressive bite than the OEM pads. Takes a little getting used to on the track. Surprisingly, there was very little braking noise around town. However, I just replaced the front rotors with the slotted Brembo GT rotors. Bedded them per Brembo recommendations. Haven't been to the track yet, but around town the new brake combo squeals like crazy! You can hear the squeal blocks away. Ear piercing! Once they warm up, they are fine (no noise noticed during bedding procedure). I'll let you know how things work on the track and whether the squeal lessens as the brake combo gets broken-in.

[mlpor]

For a good general link (covering a thinly disguised promo for sintered brake pad technology) you might try taking a look at:

http://www.essexparts.com/learning-c...ose-brake-pads

Kind of pricey pads however, the RC6E compound lists at @ $615 US for a set of front pads - Ouch!
OTOH, sounds like the sintered approach may be somewhat "self cleaning" vis-a-vis other pad material.

[Roci]

mlpor,
Thanks for the link and the suggestion. Might give them a try for my next set of pads.

[bz888]

Hey Guys. Any updates on this? I'm sick of swapping pads & rotors between Pagid Yellow for track & stock!

Are the Alcons or Brembos any good? what pads? Any feedback?

Thanks