Ceramic brakes?

[HovyR8]

Yes? No? Why? Not even listed as an option in "Build your R8" on Audi USA (or did I miss it)?

ps: I don't track or if I do, it's something like once a year.

[MotherTucker]

They are not offered to us yankees by Audi, for whatever reason. Generally, they don't actually help you stop faster, the braking power is about the same as the regular steel rotors. But they stand up better when very hot, and they last about 4 times as long as steel rotors. Racers like them because no matter how much they beat on them, they hold up and don't fail. But unless you track the car a lot, you're buying a pretty expensive status symbol (in my humble opinion).

mt

[HovyR8]

They are not offered to us yankees by Audi, for whatever reason. Generally, they don't actually help you stop faster, the braking power is about the same as the regular steel rotors. But they stand up better when very hot, and they last about 4 times as long as steel rotors. Racers like them because no matter how much they beat on them, they hold up and don't fail. But unless you track the car a lot, you're buying a pretty expensive status symbol (in my humble opinion).

mt

Then I don't need them, thank you!

[SDR8]

The other real advantage is the weight difference. Ceramics are about 7lb lighter in each corner from what I have read. And weight differences out there make a big difference.
The GT should be the first R8 for the US that should come with them.
You can always upgrade to them. A couple of our site sponsors offer them.

[z356]

Racers like them because no matter how much they beat on them, they hold up and don't fail. But unless you track the car a lot, you're buying a pretty expensive status symbol (in my humble opinion).

Is that really true? I am hearing in the Porsche gt3 boards that that ceramics are not holding up in track conditions very well and most dedicated track guys are switching back to some form of steel/ferrous set up from PCCB's.

In Porsche circles, the ceramic's advantage is now seemed to be limited to street use, where (in unstressed conditions) they will out last your ownership of the car, reduce unsprung weight on four corners and not allow ugly brake dust & soot to cover up your lovely alloy wheels. But at $8K plus for the option, it's something Porsche people are now thinking twice before ordering, especially if you plan to track your car.

What is the experience of European R8 folks with Ceramics in track situations in Britain and the continent?

Still, it would not surprise me if Audi offers ceramics real soon on the R8 here in the US. Those rumors have been circulating now for months. Since a fewer % of US R8 owners track their cars than gt3 owners, I don't see ceramics being that problematic for most owners...or Audi. In fact, I think it will help Audi position the R8 as their flagship sport car with a state-of-the-art braking system, something which it currently can't claim. z356

[HovyR8]

Is that really true? I am hearing in the Porsche gt3 boards that that ceramics are not holding up in track conditions very well and most dedicated track guys are switching back to some form of steel/ferrous set up from PCCB's.

In Porsche circles, the ceramic's advantage is now seemed to be limited to street use, where (in unstressed conditions) they will out last your ownership of the car, reduce unsprung weight on four corners and not allow ugly brake dust & soot to cover up your lovely alloy wheels. But at $8K plus for the option, it's something Porsche people are now thinking twice before ordering, especially if you plan to track your car.

What is the experience of European R8 folks with Ceramics in track situations in Britain and the continent?

Still, it would not surprise me if Audi offers ceramics real soon on the R8 here in the US. Those rumors have been circulating now for months. Since a fewer % of US R8 owners track their cars than gt3 owners, I don't see ceramics being that problematic for most owners...or Audi. In fact, I think it will help Audi position the R8 as their flagship sport car with a state-of-the-art braking system, something which it currently can't claim. z356

That's why I started this thread. I am back in the market for a sports car and I narrowed it down to basically 2 cars: the new 911 Turbo S and the R8 V10. I test drove the 911 Turbo S today and the breaking power of the PCCB (which is standard on it) was absolutely stunning.

[wedouglas]

Overpriced, especially if you by them aftermarket. Probably cheaper to just buy a brembo set up if you really want them.

[KfabR8]

A little real world street experience:

First off, I had two reasons for putting the ceramic brakes on my car.
1) Installation of the twin turbo setup - I figured that I have more HP, so I should probably want to have a better braking system. Going fast (quickly) is great, but stopping is by far more important.

2) I'll admit it - I like technical stuff. Always been a sucker for those "factory parts" - hence why I've made little trick things for my car and why I have/run a machine shop. Face it, the brakes are trick things! They just go with the theme of what I did to my car.

Those two aspects covered, I'm extremely pleased with what I'm seeing from the brakes.

They stop. Wow do they stop. Initial grab is very high (and I'm running PS2's), but they don't lock up. It takes some time learning to modulate the braking right at first pedal touch. They can be very touchy. It's also very entertaining to watch someone drive the car when they're not used to the brakes yet - followed a buddy a couple days ago as he drove my car.

Once you get used to/past that initial bite, they modulate beautifully. The feedback they offer is excellent.

They don't make any dust.
They don't work worth a squat for the first block after washing the car. That was a rude first lesson.
They are expensive.

The front (6 piston) calipers weigh 16.25 lbs. Stock (8 piston) calipers weigh 13.65 lbs
The rear (4 piston) calipers weigh 9.45 lbs. Stock (4 piston) calipers weigh 9.5 lbs
The front rotors weigh 14.1 lbs. Stock rotors weigh 24.3 lbs.
The rear rotors weigh 11.75 lbs. Stock rotors weigh 19.75 lbs.

You save 10 lbs per corner up front and 8 lbs per corner in the back in rotating mass - better acceleration/deceleration, and 7 lbs up front, 8 lbs in the back in unsprung weight - better suspension action.

Unfortunately I didn't get to drive a stock R8 and mine back to back to see if I noticed a difference in turn in. When I go from the winter wheels to summer on my RS6, I save about 15 lbs a corner and am always impressed with the difference I feel, so I would imagine it's similar on the R8.

I have about about 4300 miles on the car now and the surface of the rotors is still mirror polished. There is absolutely no sign of wear at all.

I'm going to Road America in Oct. I'm really looking forward to being able to unleash the beast and see just what the TT and the brakes can do - I know that they're much more capable than I am. I'll report back my thoughts on the brakes after that.

[HovyR8]

How was the Turbo S otherwise?

An amazing car. Super smooth. Acceleration and ease of drive was fantastic. It was a done deal if it wasn't for the look of the car. IMO, not a 165K$ look.

A little real world street experience:

First off, I had two reasons for putting the ceramic brakes on my car.
1) Installation of the twin turbo setup - I figured that I have more HP, so I should probably want to have a better braking system. Going fast (quickly) is great, but stopping is by far more important.

2) I'll admit it - I like technical stuff. Always been a sucker for those "factory parts" - hence why I've made little trick things for my car and why I have/run a machine shop. Face it, the brakes are trick things! They just go with the theme of what I did to my car.

Those two aspects covered, I'm extremely pleased with what I'm seeing from the brakes.

They stop. Wow do they stop. Initial grab is very high (and I'm running PS2's), but they don't lock up. It takes some time learning to modulate the braking right at first pedal touch. They can be very touchy. It's also very entertaining to watch someone drive the car when they're not used to the brakes yet - followed a buddy a couple days ago as he drove my car.

Once you get used to/past that initial bite, they modulate beautifully. The feedback they offer is excellent.

They don't make any dust.
They don't work worth a squat for the first block after washing the car. That was a rude first lesson.
They are expensive.

The front (6 piston) calipers weigh 16.25 lbs. Stock (8 piston) calipers weigh 13.65 lbs
The rear (4 piston) calipers weigh 9.45 lbs. Stock (4 piston) calipers weigh 9.5 lbs
The front rotors weigh 14.1 lbs. Stock rotors weigh 24.3 lbs.
The rear rotors weigh 11.75 lbs. Stock rotors weigh 19.75 lbs.

You save 10 lbs per corner up front and 8 lbs per corner in the back in rotating mass - better acceleration/deceleration, and 7 lbs up front, 8 lbs in the back in unsprung weight - better suspension action.

Unfortunately I didn't get to drive a stock R8 and mine back to back to see if I noticed a difference in turn in. When I go from the winter wheels to summer on my RS6, I save about 15 lbs a corner and am always impressed with the difference I feel, so I would imagine it's similar on the R8.

I have about about 4300 miles on the car now and the surface of the rotors is still mirror polished. There is absolutely no sign of wear at all.

I'm going to Road America in Oct. I'm really looking forward to being able to unleash the beast and see just what the TT and the brakes can do - I know that they're much more capable than I am. I'll report back my thoughts on the brakes after that.

Thank you for the detailed info.

[Europrice]

Kfab, great write up. The ceramics aren't for everyone and they are certainly not needed for those who aren't going to use them up to their potential or are not interested in the unsprung and rotating mass savings, which are going to require someone with fine tuned sense to detect, or even the lengthy lifespan.

The PCCB rotors are not made entirely in the same process as the Audi ceramic rotors. The Audi ceramic rotors are being made specifically to try and bring this technology mainstream. Audi is trying to get a new process set that will bring costs down dramatically, eventually, to start offering ceramics for lower models at much lower costs. In this quest they've made it so ceramics can be street friendly as kfab has pointed out, and it sounds like we'll get a first hand report on their performance on track soon with his twin turbo'd monster. I've not heard the same gripes on track performance issues like the PCCB's, which however have also been updated, though I haven't really dug deep to see if the latest revisions are performing better on track or not. When the PCCB's first came out everyone was removing them who did serious tracking due to a myriad of issues.

It will be great to have kfab out there to provide some information on these to folks on the forum. I have another customer running these on a heavily tracked RS4 B7 in the US and so far all smiles from that camp as well. I believe that car is going in for a supercharger as well...

Cheers,