Track day - R8 plus new friend - Turbo PDK

[kthacher]

Here are some quick impressions after spending the day on the track, together with a spanking new 911 Turbo PDK. First the pictures





The shock and awe value of the new Turbo is something to behold. I took it out for 5 or 6 laps on a 1.3 mile track. Track was wet and I had already experienced some minor mishaps on the R8 due to the slick conditions, so I was VERY careful. I left it in sport mode (PDK shifts for you - no paddling). When you slam that thing to the floor, the raw acceleration is something to behold. PDK shifting is so fast, that the acceleration seems to go on unimpeded forever.

Without pushing the car at all, I could not get a feel how it performs at anywhere near its limit. The owner after going out in my R8, felt that the R8 would be more recoverable if things started to go wrong.

Both of us let a very experienced driver go for a few labs. His best lap time in my car was 1:08.6, but with some obvious room for improvement. I think he had a 1:07ish lap going when we were impeded by a slower car on the track. Same guy took the Turbo out and did a 1:03.5. On a track this short, the difference in power explains only a small portion of the difference I believe. Unless you can heel toe shift, the manual slows you down a lot in comparison. When this guy got out and saw his time, he almost freaked out. Don't read a lot into these numbers - I think both cars are well beyond the capabilities of anyone driving at that event.

This is the first time I have seen the R8 become the second star in the constellation. I attribute this to the insane power, and as mentioned earlier the "shock and awe" that goes with it. Also, I think that the long history of the 911 brand, causes most people to see it as the "default" car in this category - the car you aspired to since you were a kid. I did have a few people say though that the R8 was the best sounding car at the track. The 911 does not rev as high, and you get kind of a "whoosh" sound it when it starts to go into orbit. Still very appealing though.

Does all this mean that I want to dump the R8, because it is now "old" or that I am smitten by the new 911? No. Although my V8 does not stand a realistic shot at matching the 911 on the track, I think that for me at least, it is still the best all around choice. Also, I really like the manual transmission, and while I understand that it compromises track performance, I would not change, since tracking is just a small portion of what I use the car for. Actually I enjoy mowing through the gears on the track, even though I know it slows me down compared to the new technology.

As a daily driver, or cross country tourer I would much rather spend time in the R8. That said, the 911 certainly represents a great choice for those with different needs and priorities. If I was a real track hound, I might consider an upgrade to the V10 or maybe the Stasis SC, but my driving skill is still way overmatched by what the car already does.

Finally, both of these cars are in a another league compared to some pretty fine iron I saw yesterday. The guy mentioned above with the times is leading the standings in a local race club with his Boxster. He was pulling aside to let me by at the end of the day, even though I am a poor driver compared to him. Same for almost everything else out there. The R8 makes a mediocre driver look better than he should.

[desperado]

Does all this mean that I want to dump the R8, because it is now "old" or that I am smitten by the new 911? No. Although my V8 does not stand a realistic shot at matching the 911 on the track, I think that for me at least, it is still the best all around choice. Also, I really like the manual transmission, and while I understand that it compromises track performance, I would not change, since tracking is just a small portion of what I use the car for. Actually I enjoy mowing through the gears on the track, even though I know it slows me down compared to the new technology.

As a daily driver, or cross country tourer I would much rather spend time in the R8. That said, the 911 certainly represents a great choice for those with different needs and priorities. If I was a real track hound, I might consider an upgrade to the V10 or maybe the Stasis SC, but my driving skill is still way overmatched by what the car already does.

Finally, both of these cars are in a another league compared to some pretty fine iron I saw yesterday. The guy mentioned above with the times is leading the standings in a local race club with his Boxster. He was pulling aside to let me by at the end of the day, even though I am a poor driver compared to him. Same for almost everything else out there. The R8 makes a mediocre driver look better than he should.

Excellent post. I agree completely with all you said. I also am a guy with ordinary skills, yet enjoy the R8 so much on both street and track.

I do think you'd like the STaSIS supercharger, as I do. It would give you the power of the V10, maybe more, without suffering the inevitable $ loss if you were to trade up to a new car. All while preserving the good things you like about your daily driver.

[Bodhii]

kthacher, that Porsche had a forced induction system. Do the same for the R8. I have no problem staying with 911 997.1 TT 's with the VF (Stasis) SC system in my R8. The 997.2 TT's may be a little faster, but you should be quicker thru the corners.

[Maverick]

I went to a Supercar event in England on Saturday and on the way home on a 2 lane country road had a chipped Nissan GTR pull out behind me (I've got a VF Engineering (Stasis's supplier) in my V8) . I went about 10 miles overtaking various cars and blasting from 55 mph or so to 100mph (felt that was enough in a 60 mph speed limit) and then let him go past and proceeded to hang on his tail pretty close. The GTR is faster than my car but not by much and as we were going different ways he stopped, rolled down his window, and said "That car isn't standard is it ? " He was obviously impressed with the getup and go.

I'd definitely recommend the SC, only problem I'm working now is how to get the braking to keep up. It may be Carbon Ceramics in the front to achieve it. The occasional high speed runs on the autobahn are tough on the brakes and tracking kills them.

Bodhii, is yours back up and running yet?

[desperado]

Mav, I've had very good results with the PAGID RS29 Yellow pads on the track. I run them on all four wheels and they stop great, last a long time, and are gentle on the stock rotors. Easy to change, and no need to change out or re-bed the rotors as the Pagid compound is compatible with the stock pads.

MT is a proponent of the Carbotech pads. The XP10 or XP12 is a very good compound with similar properties, and they are a little more affordable.

Neither of these are the right solution for dual use though (track & street), as they will pad-transfer under too gentle of use. (My son was running XP8 compound on his car at the track this weekend and hasn't changed them yet - I heard him squealing quite a bit when he came into the garage just now.)

I haven't felt the OEM brakes to be deficient in any way, but then I don't have the autobahn to play on! It's possible they are already the best you can do in a true dual-use compound....

[SteveR]

How do you think the pads improve your brakes? Do they reduce fade or shorten your stopping distance?

When I was at Infineon, it looked like we were running the stock setup and I never noticed any fade or problems with stopping power. When I do my first track day I was planning on just using the stock pads unless you guys think there is a big difference.

[desperado]

Pagids have increased initial bite; and more stopping power (higher friction). Have never had any fade; however I only tracked the stock pads when I was a novice track driver and didn't have any fade there, either.

My personal opinion is that I don't think the track pads are needed until you get out of the novice/beginner stage and start going much faster or running stickier tires. The OEM pads should be fine with the PZeros and in the earlier stages of your experience tracking the R8.

However, if you want to get a dedicated set of tires and pads for the track, it keeps the wear reasonable on your daily driver set. While you should stay with street tires for awhile (see other threads about tracking the R8 for the first time), nothing wrong with a set of track pads to start out with. Of course, you have to be willing to make the swap back and forth each time you go to an event.

[harrison]

Could it be that the OEM pads are the most "Rotor Freiendly" ? When new, the stock pads worked perfectly at the track. Once worn they are susceptable to fading, thus overheating the fluid. I learned the hard way. Boiled the fluid, and got fade on worn OEM pads. Fresh Motul race fluid and Carbotech XP12s in front and Xp10s on rear and my cars' braking is "GOLDEN". Ceramic must be iridium. Even I admit that race pads on the street are UNBEARABLE.

[MotherTucker]

Yes, I agree with everything Desperado said. Stock pads and street tires are fine for a while. You'll know when you have to go to track pads - they'll start to fade or wear out really quickly. It'll be obvious.

Far as I know, stock pads are used in Audi's fleet of R8s used in the Audi Driving Experience. Those cars are tracked tons - but usually by beginner level drivers.

mt

[Europrice]

Every component has it's place to be used when it comes to brakes. Some pads do cross duty better than others, meaning they can go from street to track and back, but usually they have some drawbacks in either location that a dedicated street or track pad wouldn't have. If you are on stock tires and are a novice driver on track stock pads are likely fine. The first time you ever hit fade or get a useless pedal you've found that you drive too hard for those pads, time to move up to a more aggressive pad compound. You can find intermediate pads, these may be a little noisy with day to day use, usually when cold, but they have good initial bite and don't need to be hot to run. They are gentle enough on rotors to run them year round and hit the track with fresh fluid and standard tires (though you may use them up really quickly). Next step is an aggressive track/race pad and these are not street friendly, they make noise, they wear rotors quickly at standard driving temperatures and the more aggressive they are the worse they perform when cold.

Really the best thing is to swap within the same manufacturer of the pad. They tend to use similar compounds which are friendly with each other when moving from a street pad to a track/race pad. Some pads are VERY incompatible and jumping to an incompatible pad at the track can lengthen braking distances even.

When you add power and traction on this car you can easily overwhelm the front rotors. They are the weakest link in the system as they just don't shed heat or handle high temperatures well when you take this car to the limit, add power and traction and aggressive race pads and the rotors really take a hit, either fading issues, wear issues or even warping issues can arise.

Either way for most folks who drive fairly aggressively on track swapping pads really is essential, not hard either, but make sure to get compatible pads which is usually easily done by staying with the same manufacturer. For those going nuts on track, turbos/chargers, track tires, etc you may find you replace equipment a fair amount or just can't drive to the fullest potential of the car without some level of braking problems, just depends on the driver and track as well. Lots of variables!