Swapping the R8 for Porsche GT3 and track duties

[mlpor]

I ran a forum search, but didn't see anything directly on point. If there’s a better “comparison” link already up and running on this, please let me know where to re-post this. In any event, . . . .

Once one gets past the visual "Ahhhh . . ." factors of the R8, I find myself considering swapping a 2008 6-speed R8 in for a 997 Porsche GT3 of one version or another. While the Audi's been fun for the last 3 years, I just don't want to really get into the nitty gritty of discovering how well the R8 might (or might not) work as a more seriously used, and run HPDE / Track day car. If I can find the right car, ideally I’m thinking of trying to make a more or less straight across exchange/trade, the R8 for a more suitable track vehicle.

FWIW, I usually run a lightly modified (brake package, Bilstein PSS9 coilovers and power steering cooler) 2006 Cayman S in track day events – local PCA, NASA and others. Lately if seems as if It's just getting too hard to pedal the 3.4 liter, 295 bhp Cayman fast enough to keep up with some of the newer cars coming out to the track, principally as of a couple of weekends ago (PCA event) a spate of newer Porsche GT3/ GT3 RS. I’m also reluctant to put the Cayman on full race slicks without also looking hard at sinking more money into it to attempt to prophylactic ally address what may, or may not be real high lateral load oiling issues in the “regular” Porsche engines.

So, the question I find myself asking is how much more, if any, track capable would the move to something like a 2007 (the 3.6 original 997 version) or the latter, 2010 (the revised 3.8 liter aka “997.2”) GT3 be?
One other alternative might be to find a good earlier 996 version GT2.

Part of the idea being, these (the GT3/GT2 Porsches) are based on well tested and proven racing platforms, with a broad base of track time and support, where as with the R8, there’s still a bit of a “pioneer” feeling about taking off on an extended tracking program etc. with the car.

Thanks
Mike

[SteveR]

Until the guys that actually know what they are talking about chime in, I'd say the R8 -> GT3 swap looks like a lateral move to me. Sure the Porsche has a more established club/parts lineup, but you should have no trouble getting the same performance out of the R8 with the parts available.

Scanning through the lap times, it looks like a wash (ignore the conclusion, it's off because of the strange Hockenheim time) or maybe a slight advantage to the Audi.
GT3RS vs R8 V10

I picked the V10 times because they are a better representation of what you can get out of the V8 with a few mods. In fact you can probably get your V8 to be quite a bit faster than the V10 depending on how good a driver you are. There may be more Porsche parts available, but with the GT parts and aftermarket brakes, camber kits, seats, and power adders the Audi will not be holding you back. Either car should work just fine.

I hear the Cayman is a sweet handling track car. Are you just looking for more power?

[bz888]

R8 V8 with H&R springs, Michelin Cups, Pagid Yellow/Blue pads is faster than 996 GT3 but just as fast as 997 GT3.

Add coil overs, Camber kit, exhaust, put her on a diet, and she's just as fast as 997.2 GT3!

I have no issues playing with either of the above on track days!
Consistently and reliably.
Add Aero kit from APR, and it's all good!

[mlpor]

Until the guys that actually know what they are talking about chime in, I'd say the R8 -> GT3 swap looks like a lateral move to me.

I hear the Cayman is a sweet handling track car. Are you just looking for more power?

More power, yes. Those pesky GT3 guys are just walking away from the Cayman on the straights, . . . and they're pretty **** fast in the corners too. Of course, as best I can tell a goodly number of them are on Cup Sports at the very least, Hoosiers &/or Kuhmo VictorRacers or v700 or 710s etc. I'm also irritated by the VOS or AOS oil mosquito fogging start ups following some of the hard track sessions and, in conjunction with that address the Cayman camp concerns regarding the GT3 "motorsports" (?) Mezer engine dry sump etc. setup vs. Porsche's Cayman Owner's Manual warning to the effect, if "we find out you've been running this car on race rubber, well we reserve the right to void the warranty."

As far as the swap, it's either a latteral move, (see, as you've pointed out e.g. http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...r8-m3-gtr.html ) or maybe even really a step back.

If it's of any help to anyone, I spent @ an hour driving one of the potential trade candidates Saturday, followed by diner in Boulder and a late night drive back south home in the R8 (@ 45+ miles south.) It was starting to rain as I left Boulder, and by the time I reached Denver the rain had turned to snow, and it was snowing quite hard the further south I got. ****, the two cars have a very different feeling - the R8, polished, quite, marvelous sound system that you can actually hear (the GT3's may be marvelous as well, but with all that other clatter, whirring and churning sound going on, one just won't be able to hear very much of it.) It was cold, and both cars "felt" strong, but I'd have to say FWIW the Audi a little stronger - and up here at altitude, were giving away a fair bit of power, @ 18% +/-, to you sea level folks.

In any event, the decision isn't looking as clear cut as I'd wish. Just hate to think about turning the R8 into a regular track day machine, . . . .

[mlpor]

R8 V8 with H&R springs, Michelin Cups, Pagid Yellow/Blue pads is faster than 996 GT3 but just as fast as 997 GT3.

Add coil overs, Camber kit, exhaust, put her on a diet, and she's just as fast as 997.2 GT3!

I have no issues playing with either of the above on track days!
Consistently and reliably.
Add Aero kit from APR, and it's all good!

Thanks Bz888, but it's that " . . . additional oil cooler . . ." kind of stuff I see you are looking at that I'd rather not have to get into with the R8. I find I'm kind of facing the same thing with the Cayman - run it really hard, with a lot of 2nd gear instead of trying to roll through in 3rd corners, on a really hot day, at altitude with thin air, and I find I'm pushing water temperature limits. I can add a third radiator (the automatic steptronic versions of the Cayman come with a 3rd center mounted radiator as standard since, as I understand, the automatics have cooling for the transmission tied into the cars radiator, along with the engine's oil to water cooling), but . . . that's back into the modification mode I'd like to stay away from if possible.

[SteveR]

More power, yes. Those pesky GT3 guys are just walking away from the Cayman on the straights, . . . and they're pretty **** fast in the corners too. Of course, as best I can tell a goodly number of them are on Cup Sports at the very least, Hoosiers &/or Kuhmo VictorRacers or v700 or 710s etc.

In any event, the decision isn't looking as clear cut as I'd wish. Just hate to think about turning the R8 into a regular track day machine, . . . .

I don't see why not. If you are worried about cooling mods, I haven't seen anyone with overheating problems. I think bz888 was just hoping for more performance by running the oil cooler. You don't really need to mod the car at all to compete (again, I am not the best source. Others have much more track experience). Most of the options to improve the car are pretty basic. Phases of modification would look something like this depending on how serious you are:

Stage 1
-cut hole over brake master cylinder cap for flushes
-stickier street tires when you burn up the Pirellis (245/305)

Stage 2
-New exhaust (take your pick)
-ECU tune

Stage 3
-seconds set of wheels with R compound tires
-swap pads for Pagid Yellow or Carbotecs on track days
-camber kit

Stage 4
-Supercharger

Stage 5
-Rollbar and harness
-Lightweight seats
-Ceramic brakes

I think that about covers the options that are likely to make a difference. It's a pretty simple list really. There are a few other options like wings I'm not sure translate into faster lap times.

[maegeri]

How about keeping the R8 for DD and turbo the Cayman S? You probably have only 1 more year on warranty.

[bz888]

Additional Oil Cooler is NOT required nor additional cooling. The R8 V8 is ROCK solid!
I'm considering due to the Hot and Humid days we have in Northern Parts of Australia!

35-40 Degrees C with high humidity means the car gets punished out on the track!
But always drives home nicely with my B&O sound system and aircon!!

[mlpor]

Additional Oil Cooler is NOT required nor additional cooling. The R8 V8 is ROCK solid!
I'm considering due to the Hot and Humid days we have in Northern Parts of Australia!

35-40 Degrees C with high humidity means the car gets punished out on the track!
But always drives home nicely with my B&O sound system and aircon!!

Good to know, as I think our summer cooling conditions can be even a bit more demanding - we're can be in that same 95° to 100°F range, however with low or NO humidity and at 5,300+ feet, we also have no air density to help with heat transfer either.

[porsche racer]

It depends on what kind of tracking you want to do. If you want to do HPDE's and have a little fun get the GT3. However, you will never move up from the HPDE2. Because if you advance to higher groups you will notice Miata spec cars and 944 cup cars, Honda civic H1 cars are passing you real fast. You will be depressed really fast. All I want to say is, if you want go tracking, keep your R8 and spend 20-25K on a track car. Then you will enjoy your track days. Buying a GT3 will not make you fast on the track. Trust me, I've been there and done that. An inexpensive track car will teach you the "Momentum" driving. Off course you will need a trailer too.