R8 Structural Reinforcement Retrofit Done! - Page 41


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Thread: R8 Structural Reinforcement Retrofit Done!

  1. #401
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    Re: R8 Structural Reinforcement Retrofit Done!

    Hi, I'm hoping to get some help in acquiring a set (or 2 sets if available) of Audi R8 front end aluminum frame reinforcement brackets (Audi part numbers: 427805884 & 427805883). I am hoping that there may still be a set or 2 floating around amongst r8talk members from the group purchase discussed in this forum. I would be most appreciative if anybody could help me as I really need to address this issue with my car urgently.
    I look forward to hearing back from you. Thank you Shane William Short Melbourne Australia

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  3. #402
    Senior Member DaveL's Avatar
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    Re: R8 Structural Reinforcement Retrofit Done!

    I bought mine direct from Audi U.K. but they are available on ebay too (search Audi R8 front frame reinforcement brackets).
    Last edited by DaveL; 07-30-2019 at 04:31 AM.
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  4. #403
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    Re: R8 Structural Reinforcement Retrofit Done!

    I found mine on eBay it was like $40 plus shipping

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  6. #404
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    Re: R8 Structural Reinforcement Retrofit Done!

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneMelbourne View Post
    Hi, I'm hoping to get some help in acquiring a set (or 2 sets if available) of Audi R8 front end aluminum frame reinforcement brackets (Audi part numbers: 427805884 & 427805883). I am hoping that there may still be a set or 2 floating around amongst r8talk members from the group purchase discussed in this forum. I would be most appreciative if anybody could help me as I really need to address this issue with my car urgently.
    I look forward to hearing back from you. Thank you Shane William Short Melbourne Australia
    I have a set of these from the group buy. If you still need them – and can wait for delivery from the UK! – let me know...
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  7. #405
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  8. #406
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    Re: R8 Structural Reinforcement Retrofit Done!

    I ordered a set from the UK Ebay site and received them stateside in 4 days. You can't buy these in America and I have always wanted a set to have just in case. There is so much controversy about installing them and since my frame looks fine I will just keep them for piece of mind in case I find an incredible aluminum welder one day.

  9. #407
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    Re: R8 Structural Reinforcement Retrofit Done!

    I got my masters in metallurgical engineering (with a focus on welding) and my doctorate in welding engineering (with a focus on metallurgy). There are a couple technical experts on this thread that have made excellent points, some other people on this thread have made some good metallurgical insights based probably only on Google searches ... but most people are pretty wildly off the mark with superfluous info they Googled.

    I've offered my thoughts on here several times regarding the issue of potential strength loss from welding, and the likelihood of how the car was originally fabricated and how that should inform our risk of performing this preventative maintenance. I mostly get talked over ... but I'm old enough to understand: that's life.

    For what it's worth, if I could find an Audi certified aluminum repair shop that would do it for a reasonable price, I would in a heartbeat.
    Last edited by gallag4; 08-13-2019 at 08:00 PM.

  10. #408
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    Re: R8 Structural Reinforcement Retrofit Done!

    Hi gallag, Thanks for your insight. Here's a video of how the R8 is made and the Audi engineer explaining how the aluminium space frame is welded together.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5or9wDriCU

    The aluminium space frame appear to be casted and extruded parts. (Video 2:00). Can you tell from the video if these aluminium frames on the jigs are heat treated before welding or "cold welded" and non treated?

    From your post, you do not appear to be worried about the potential strength loss from welding. Are you saying this is a non issue even if the reinforcement plates are welded on without heat treating the frame?

    We would appreciate your metallurgical engineering knowledge here. Cheers.


    Quote Originally Posted by gallag4 View Post
    I got my masters in metallurgical engineering (with a focus on welding) and my doctorate in welding engineering (with a focus on metallurgy). There are a couple technical experts on this thread that have made excellent points, some other people on this thread have made some good metallurgical insights based probably only on Google searches ... but most people are pretty wildly off the mark with superfluous info they Googled.

    I've offered my thoughts on here several times regarding the issue of potential strength loss from welding, and the likelihood of how the car was originally fabricated and how that should inform our risk of performing this preventative maintenance. I mostly get talked over ... but I'm old enough to understand: that's life.

    For what it's worth, if I could find an Audi certified aluminum repair shop that would do it for a reasonable price, I would in a heartbeat.
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  11. #409
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    Re: R8 Structural Reinforcement Retrofit Done!

    Howie,

    The jist of the issue, in my opinion, is whether or not we believe that the entire space frame is furnace heat treated after all of the welding we saw in the video*. I've seen nothing to indicate that it is, and think that it would be impractical to do so. If the frame is not furnace heat treated after welding, then (a) the frame is constructed of an alloy/temper that doesn't soften with welding, or (b) softening does occur, but Audi has accounted for this in designing all these weld joints. With respect to the latter scenario, there are a lot of examples in industry where the weld-metal or HAZ are softer than a base-metal in a hard-temper, but the weld-joint is mechanically designed to account for this.

    Whether it's scenario (a) or (b), if the manual welds made by the Audi factory have acceptable strength levels, then welds made by any other competent aluminum welder will also be acceptable in strength. If this weren't the case, Audi would never, ever, ever sell those brackets, even to their own certified aluminum repair centers ... and I've gotten two quotes from Audi over the last year for this work.

    *This argument assumes that the space frame is made out of a 6XXX series heat-treatable alloy, as indicated in one of the pictures showing the bracket is stamped with AlMgSi. Since Audi isn't forthcoming with this information, then the way to figure out what alloy and temper the space frame (and welds) are made out of is:

    1. Get the chemistry of the frame and welds from an XRF gun. This technique is completely non-destructive, and we all probably know someone who works at a company that has one.
    2. Get the hardness of of the frame and a weld with a MIC10 type hardness tester, which is again completely non-destructive, and we probably know someone who works at a company that has one.

    You can more or less piece together what materials you're working with with these two pieces of information.

  12. #410
    Senior Member Trev450's Avatar
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    Re: R8 Structural Reinforcement Retrofit Done!

    gallag4 - this is very informative and whilst I have virtually no knowledge of the subject area, I am nonetheless very appreciative of you taking the time to impart your considerable know how.
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