Audi R8 Frame Crack / LITIGATION - Page 4


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Thread: Audi R8 Frame Crack / LITIGATION

  1. #31

    Re: Audi R8 Frame Crack / LITIGATION

    oh My GOSH!!! Listen to yourselves! Everyone's suddenly a self-appointed expert. I can't believe the misinformation being bandied about in this and other recent threads on this subject.

    While I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation, and can certainly understand his panicked concern about the car given all the misinformation and hyperventilating he has read on this forum, I think everyone should take a very deep breath before leaping off this particular cliff.

    I've spoken to several welders regarding this issue. They have told me they are aware of this issue on R8's and some A8's. Even with no accidents involved. I asked, in their opinion is this a DANGEROUS CONDITION?. They advised me that it was very dangerous and to not drive the car further.
    So in the opinion of these welders, whose qualifications have not been revealed, a decision is reached to take the car out of service and initiate litigation against a major multinational corporation? On what basis do you think these welders know enough about the structural load paths in the R8 to reach a valid conclusion on the matter?

    I am not personally aware of ANY chassis failure, either total collapse or significant distortion, subsequent to and attributable to this sort of minor cracking at the shock mount. If there has been a documented failure we'd all appreciate hearing about it.

    My welder assumed is was 7 series alloy based on his research, and as he was an airframe mechanic it didn't present him with a problem. What type of Aluminium is used in cars? The most widely used alloy is 7075. It consists of aluminium, zinc, magnesium and copper. It's the strongest of all aluminium alloys and comparable in that respect with steel, however it weighs only a third of what steel weighs. As an aside, a lot of specialist regard 7075 as unweldable !!!!!!!!
    The subsequent discussion then branches off into mostly uninformed speculation about adhesive bonding.

    This kind of "expert talk", which is not DIRECTLY applicable to the topic at hand, just serves to mislead the already ill-informed. Please stop doing it.

    The FACT is that the Audi structural repair manual for the R8 specifies EXACTLY the welding procedures and composition of the the filler metals which may be used in repairing the R8 frame. It also specifies EXACTLY which adhesive bonding procedures and blind riveting procedures are approved, and where they may be used.

    It is good to be conservative and concerned, but please do so on the basis of knowledge gleaned from the truly informed, not opinions found on this or any other internet forum. I wish you the best result as you work your way through your concerns.
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  3. #32
    Senior Member DaveL's Avatar
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    Re: Audi R8 Frame Crack / LITIGATION

    Quote Originally Posted by desperado View Post
    oh My GOSH!!! Listen to yourselves! Everyone's suddenly a self-appointed expert. I can't believe the misinformation being bandied about in this and other recent threads on this subject.

    While I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation, and can certainly understand his panicked concern about the car given all the misinformation and hyperventilating he has read on this forum, I think everyone should take a very deep breath before leaping off this particular cliff.



    So in the opinion of these welders, whose qualifications have not been revealed, a decision is reached to take the car out of service and initiate litigation against a major multinational corporation? On what basis do you think these welders know enough about the structural load paths in the R8 to reach a valid conclusion on the matter?

    I am not personally aware of ANY chassis failure, either total collapse or significant distortion, subsequent to and attributable to this sort of minor cracking at the shock mount. If there has been a documented failure we'd all appreciate hearing about it.

    The subsequent discussion then branches off into mostly uninformed speculation about adhesive bonding.

    This kind of "expert talk", which is not DIRECTLY applicable to the topic at hand, just serves to mislead the already ill-informed. Please stop doing it.

    The FACT is that the Audi structural repair manual for the R8 specifies EXACTLY the welding procedures and composition of the the filler metals which may be used in repairing the R8 frame. It also specifies EXACTLY which adhesive bonding procedures and blind riveting procedures are approved, and where they may be used.

    It is good to be conservative and concerned, but please do so on the basis of knowledge gleaned from the truly informed, not opinions found on this or any other internet forum. I wish you the best result as you work your way through your concerns.
    Dear Desperado, if you have the knowledge and information... just post it and don't bash people who are concerned and trying to do their best by for their cars.

    "Don't give me problems.... give me solutions"
    Last edited by DaveL; 08-15-2019 at 05:32 PM.
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  4. #33
    Senior Member pompeyreece's Avatar
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    Re: Audi R8 Frame Crack / LITIGATION

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveL View Post
    Dear Desperado, if you have the knowledge and information... just post it and don't bash people who are concerned and trying to do their best by for their cars.

    "Don't give me problems.... give me solutions"
    Must confess I didn't read it like that Dave. I felt it was a corrective post, indicating all the talk about measuring the frame etc. wasn't needed? The solutions are already documented as it were.

    Also is it me or have some people's posts on this thread disappeared?
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  6. #34
    Senior Member DaveL's Avatar
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    Re: Audi R8 Frame Crack / LITIGATION

    Quote Originally Posted by pompeyreece View Post
    Must confess I didn't read it like that Dave. I felt it was a corrective post, indicating all the talk about measuring the frame etc. wasn't needed? The solutions are already documented as it were.

    Also is it me or have some people's posts on this thread disappeared?
    It wasn't my intention to attack, just tired of this subject going back and forth, if someone has the definitive answer! just post it. Not sure that any posts have gone Reece.
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  7. #35
    Senior Member pompeyreece's Avatar
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    Re: Audi R8 Frame Crack / LITIGATION

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveL View Post
    Not sure that any posts have gone Reece.
    Nope, you're right. Getting threads mixed up!!
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  8. #36
    Senior Member DaveL's Avatar
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    Re: Audi R8 Frame Crack / LITIGATION

    Quote Originally Posted by pompeyreece View Post
    Nope, you're right. Getting threads mixed up!!
    Confusing this one with the original frame crack post by Howie eh!
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  9. #37
    Senior Member Hat Trick's Avatar
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    Re: Audi R8 Frame Crack / LITIGATION

    Quote Originally Posted by desperado View Post
    oh My GOSH!!! Listen to yourselves! Everyone's suddenly a self-appointed expert. I can't believe the misinformation being bandied about in this and other recent threads on this subject.

    While I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation, and can certainly understand his panicked concern about the car given all the misinformation and hyperventilating he has read on this forum, I think everyone should take a very deep breath before leaping off this particular cliff.



    So in the opinion of these welders, whose qualifications have not been revealed, a decision is reached to take the car out of service and initiate litigation against a major multinational corporation? On what basis do you think these welders know enough about the structural load paths in the R8 to reach a valid conclusion on the matter?

    I am not personally aware of ANY chassis failure, either total collapse or significant distortion, subsequent to and attributable to this sort of minor cracking at the shock mount. If there has been a documented failure we'd all appreciate hearing about it.

    The subsequent discussion then branches off into mostly uninformed speculation about adhesive bonding.

    This kind of "expert talk", which is not DIRECTLY applicable to the topic at hand, just serves to mislead the already ill-informed. Please stop doing it.

    The FACT is that the Audi structural repair manual for the R8 specifies EXACTLY the welding procedures and composition of the the filler metals which may be used in repairing the R8 frame. It also specifies EXACTLY which adhesive bonding procedures and blind riveting procedures are approved, and where they may be used.

    It is good to be conservative and concerned, but please do so on the basis of knowledge gleaned from the truly informed, not opinions found on this or any other internet forum. I wish you the best result as you work your way through your concerns.
    Aside from R8 ownership, do you have a vested affiliation with AUDI HQ ?

    Further, is it not the point of the forum to share ideas, lament on any problems and discuss potential remedies ?

    The Audi Structural Repair Manual you reference, unfortunately does not disclose the cost to cure. Roughly a $40,000 repair if done by the book, only to be done by an Authorized Audi Repair Facility. Isn't that right ?

    Most, if not all insurance companies, will not pay on this claim and simply total the vehicle and I don't see an individual owner ponying up this amount of $$$ to make the car right.

    So what are we left with ? Looking for opportunities to fix the car within the realm of safety and fair cost on a Forum dedicated to the R8 ?

    I don't recall anyone calling themselves an EXPERT in these threads. They've merely shared ideas and discussions they've had with others concerned.

    Here's the reality. Audi knew of the problem or the susceptibility of the frame cracking and took corrective action to fix it with reinforced bracing in late 2010 models.

    Was it not incumbent on Audi to inform owners of this problem and offer a solution or at the very least any options available, regardless if there were any deaths or reported failures ?

    Therein lies the rub and potential moral hazard R8 owners are struggling with who have suffered either financial loss or loss of use with their affected R8.

    Flame away....
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  10. #38
    Senior Member DaveL's Avatar
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    Re: Audi R8 Frame Crack / LITIGATION

    Quote Originally Posted by Hat Trick View Post
    Further, is it not the point of the forum to share ideas, lament on any problems and discuss potential remedies ?
    Agree 100%, if someone is sitting smugly with a late model R8 with warranty then perhaps it isn't a concern, but for all of us with pre 2010 cars and no warranty, what to prevent this problem occurring is a concern!

    And that's me finished with this subject, reinforcement plates fitted and happy.
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  11. #39
    Senior Member HowieR888's Avatar
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    Re: Audi R8 Frame Crack / LITIGATION

    Even I'm getting confused Dave.

    Regardless, it's interesting to read all the discussions here.

    Should anyone embark on this retrofit, voice your concerns with your local Aluminium welding specialist to see if they can clear things up before proceeding.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveL View Post
    Confusing this one with the original frame crack post by Howie eh!
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  12. #40
    Senior Member ucf3's Avatar
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    Re: Audi R8 Frame Crack / LITIGATION

    just stumbled into this thread today. I remember seeing the weld/bonded marks on my 2008 but didn't give it two thoughts until now. .LOL. anyway, wanted to ask if someone has reported this to

    https://www.nhtsa.gov/
    or one of the safety government agencies/

    the manufacturer wouldn't sell cars without a rubber stamping from the Feds. anybody look into if they've approved the car for US roads?
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