Audi R8 Forums banner
1 - 6 of 6 Posts

·
Registered
Audi R8 V10 Coupe 2012
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello All,
I fitted a set of Öhlins TTX Coilovers on my Gen 1 V10 R-tronic some time ago and thought I would give my impressions this far, when I have had the chance to drive the car properly. At the time of writing I have done arbound 800 km of Autobahn driving and a few laps around the Nordschleife.

The first thing that is obvious with the TTX compared to the stock mag rides is the superior handling of uneven road surfaces. Where the mag rides are crashy and numb over cracks etc, the TTX swallows the surface imperfections through superior damping. It feels very tight, like the entire suspension is on high quality, fresh bushings. I even drove over cobble stones with the car without it feeling crashy.

Another thing that stands out immediately is that the suspension of car feels 100 kg lighter when driving. It feels more agile and lighter in its track.

At high speed on the Autobahn, where the car felt numb and nervous at high speeds on the mag rides, it now feels a lot calmer and more stable. What is left now is that the car sometimes tends to drift/change direction slowly from side to side at speeds of 210 km/h and over. To me it feels like it is sensitive to side wind, but I am not sure. I am on standard wheel angles and pressures (2.7 bar front, 2.5 bar back), could be that too. Overall the car could feel more planted in high speeds I think. It feels like it needs more downforce, but hard to tell. The steering I think is a bit too sensitive at high speeds, and a bit light overall for my taste. Another thing that should be mentioned is that I have made an RWD conversion. That is highly recommended, not least since it purifies steering wheel road surface feedback a lot and makes it easier to drive fast.

On the Nordschleife the car handles considerably better on the TTX compared to the mag rides. On the stock bump and rebound settings, there is more suspension movememt compared to the mag rides, but in a good way. The coilovers are very engaged negotiating the surface, where the mag rides felt more like the car was a stiff brick on the track. Still more body roll with the TTX is not anything you notice, which can seem odd as the suspension moves more in a straight line. The balance of the car feels pretty spot on this far, it cuts through the corners and is not oversteery either. I am a long way from pushing the car to its absoute limits however. That is not something many can do on the Nordschleife for that matter :) People do not understand how extreme the track is before driving it themselves. YouTube videos do not even come close to conveying the extreme sensations with the steep hills, crests, off camber narrow bends and zero safety zones :S

Here is a video of a medium tempo lap from today:


Tomorrow I will drive the GP track, which I am sure will be great fun as that is much simpler and not at all as nerve-racking as the Nordschleife :) I will come back with my impressions from that.

Dirty car after 1300 km on the Autobahn, Polish roads and a few laps on the Ring:
Tire Wheel Car Vehicle Grille
 

·
Chassis/Vehicle Dynamics Engineer
Joined
·
714 Posts
Hello All,
I fitted a set of Öhlins TTX Coilovers on my Gen 1 V10 R-tronic some time ago and thought I would give my impressions this far, when I have had the chance to drive the car properly. At the time of writing I have done arbound 800 km of Autobahn driving and a few laps around the Nordschleife.

The first thing that is obvious with the TTX compared to the stock mag rides is the superior handling of uneven road surfaces. Where the mag rides are crashy and numb over cracks etc, the TTX swallows the surface imperfections through superior damping. It feels very tight, like the entire suspension is on high quality, fresh bushings. I even drove over cobble stones with the car without it feeling crashy.

Another thing that stands out immediately is that the suspension of car feels 100 kg lighter when driving. It feels more agile and lighter in its track.

At high speed on the Autobahn, where the car felt numb and nervous at high speeds on the mag rides, it now feels a lot calmer and more stable. What is left now is that the car sometimes tends to drift/change direction slowly from side to side at speeds of 210 km/h and over. To me it feels like it is sensitive to side wind, but I am not sure. I am on standard wheel angles and pressures (2.7 bar front, 2.5 bar back), could be that too. Overall the car could feel more planted in high speeds I think. It feels like it needs more downforce, but hard to tell. The steering I think is a bit too sensitive at high speeds, and a bit light overall for my taste. Another thing that should be mentioned is that I have made an RWD conversion. That is highly recommended, not least since it purifies steering wheel road surface feedback a lot and makes it easier to drive fast.

On the Nordschleife the car handles considerably better on the TTX compared to the mag rides. On the stock bump and rebound settings, there is more suspension movememt compared to the mag rides, but in a good way. The coilovers are very engaged negotiating the surface, where the mag rides felt more like the car was a stiff brick on the track. Still more body roll with the TTX is not anything you notice, which can seem odd as the suspension moves more in a straight line. The balance of the car feels pretty spot on this far, it cuts through the corners and is not oversteery either. I am a long way from pushing the car to its absoute limits however. That is not something many can do on the Nordschleife for that matter :) People do not understand how extreme the track is before driving it themselves. YouTube videos do not even come close to conveying the extreme sensations with the steep hills, crests, off camber narrow bends and zero safety zones :S

Here is a video of a medium tempo lap from today:


Tomorrow I will drive the GP track, which I am sure will be great fun as that is much simpler and not at all as nerve-racking as the Nordschleife :) I will come back with my impressions from that.

Dirty car after 1300 km on the Autobahn, Polish roads and a few laps on the Ring:
View attachment 276492
I assume this is the Ohlins TTX AUV-MS00 suspension Ohlins calls the Advanced Trackday. Correct?

Your feedback makes sense except the wandering at 200 kph or 120 mph. That is not very fast and she should be solid although to us those Ohlins spec'd springs are too stiff for most roads and especially with your RWS conversion.

The RWS conversion badly needs more front bar and less front spring, but the Gen 1 front bar is already giant. Someone here did a conversion to allow the Gen 2 carbon bar to fit. That may be worth investigating. Your RWS conversion moves the weight distribution rearward almost 2%...this is a very big deal and makes what was a Quattro less stable.

Also I disagree with the Ohlins damper adjuster recommendations for stability and response yet a secure rear tire grip. The Ohlins TTX adjusters work well unlike most dampers.. I can give you those numbers in a PM if you want.

High speed running - continuous (200 KPH plus) run the placard pressures on your door...like 3.1 Bar and 2.8 Bar is what our 2012 V10 shows for pressures on the door placard. High speed running puts huge heat in the tires. Far more the cornering in most cases. This softens the tires and they need the pressure for this running.

It appears you are lowered from stock? Correct? If so, how much? Have you had the car realigned since. It seems your toes and cambers are off adding to the wandering. Lowering the car causes the front toe to toe-in less or go to toe out...this feels very darty. I recommend stock toes and cambers for most people.
 

·
Registered
Audi R8 V10 Coupe 2012
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Hello Scott!

Yes, the AUVMS00 (Öhlins Advanced Trackday) is what I have installed. I did a few laps on the Nürburgring GP track today, and interestingly the car understeered quite significantly in low and medium speed corners. I had tremendous rear grip though, and even when I tried to provoke some rear steer with the throttle on acceleration, the rear stuck. So that would need to be addressed. Lowering front spring rate could be one option, but a stiffer front sway bar should worsen the understeer if I am not mistaken? Also stiffer rear bump settings should help? Yes, please PM some suggested settings, that would be helpful.

Regarding tire pressures I ran with the same 2.7 front and 2.5 rear, and that yielded a bit too much tire center heat both front and rear, so in that respect at least the pressures should be lowered. The inner temps were a bit lower than middle and outside from what I could see, which indicates too little camber for track use.

Interestingly the placard on my German spec 2012 V10 does not give the same figures as yours for < 270 km/h:

Font Temperature Number Terrestrial animal Rectangle


We did a four wheel alignment post coilover install, and set stock geometry as far as possible. I do not have the figures at hand now, but I will go trough them again to see if there is an issue. We also did corner weigthing, and the initial figure of weight distribution without driver and with approx 50% fuel was 57% rear bias. The car is lowered as per Öhlin's recommendation, which was about 15mm lower than stock all round, not considering the corner weighting.

An additional thing from the GP track today was that the oil temp after two laps was scarily high, around 145 deg celcius. Red line is 150 deg. Does the V10 need additional oil cooling for track use?
 

·
Chassis/Vehicle Dynamics Engineer
Joined
·
714 Posts
Hello Scott!

Yes, the AUVMS00 (Öhlins Advanced Trackday) is what I have installed. I did a few laps on the Nürburgring GP track today, and interestingly the car understeered quite significantly in low and medium speed corners. I had tremendous rear grip though, and even when I tried to provoke some rear steer with the throttle on acceleration, the rear stuck. So that would need to be addressed. Lowering front spring rate could be one option, but a stiffer front sway bar should worsen the understeer if I am not mistaken? Also stiffer rear bump settings should help? Yes, please PM some suggested settings, that would be helpful.

Regarding tire pressures I ran with the same 2.7 front and 2.5 rear, and that yielded a bit too much tire center heat both front and rear, so in that respect at least the pressures should be lowered. The inner temps were a bit lower than middle and outside from what I could see, which indicates too little camber for track use.

Interestingly the placard on my German spec 2012 V10 does not give the same figures as yours for < 270 km/h:

View attachment 276511

We did a four wheel alignment post coilover install, and set stock geometry as far as possible. I do not have the figures at hand now, but I will go trough them again to see if there is an issue. We also did corner weigthing, and the initial figure of weight distribution without driver and with approx 50% fuel was 57% rear bias. The car is lowered as per Öhlin's recommendation, which was about 15mm lower than stock all round, not considering the corner weighting.

An additional thing from the GP track today was that the oil temp after two laps was scarily high, around 145 deg celcius. Red line is 150 deg. Does the V10 need additional oil cooling for track use?
Understeer mid corner through exit or right front initial turn-in? I am guessing more mid corner. Those adjuster will mostly affect turn-in and perhaps a little on the bumps, but not a lot. Will PM you our settings.

I suspect the understeer is coming from front rough road grip not doing as well as the rear. I would not lower that setup more than 10 mm (and that is what Ohlins says as well). The front has very limited travel and you may be running on the tiny and very stiff front bump stop on the outside front killing front grip. You can do the McGyver shock sensor to see max travel by putting a tie wrap on the shock shafts by the body and see if they end up against the bump stop.

The RWD needs softer front springs and a stiffer front anti-rollbar (because of the rearward weight distribution). Yes the stiffer front bar by itself would typically add understeer except as your temperatures are showing you are losing camber...the front bar helps hold front camber while the softer springs will help on rough road grip. That rearward bias hurts turn in and will add understeer until she breaks lose. This is why one of my customers who did this RWD mod went back. Of note, that TTX suspension was developed for the Quattro...

Camber - for the track we maxed out the eccentrics and run -1.7 deg front and ~-1.5 deg rear.

Tires? What tires are you running? We run PSC2's on the track. I would not run PS4S's there.

Tire pressures - my 2012 R8 V10 just gives those pressures only 45 psi front and 41 psi rear. (Two pressures on the placard is not common in the USA, but we did it on the '05 Ford GT)
We daily drive our R8 at 39 psi front and 36 psi rear. At the track I run ~32 psi front cold and 29 psi rear cold. We build 7-8 psi.

Oil temps? I have not noticed this issue and my running has included being at APEX in Phoenix, AZ on a ~98 deg F day last Fall.
 

·
Registered
Audi R8 V10 Coupe 2012
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hello again Scott,

indeed, the understeer was mid corner trough the exit. Like an old 911 with a lot of rear grip. Do you think it would make sense to put on say 10% softer front springs? Would it be possible to soften the front dampers via the bump+rebound adjustment range to match the softer spring? Or would you in practice need another, softer shock altogether?

Regarding the RWD conversion I really appreciate the improved road connection/feel through the steering wheel from having engine torque removed from the front wheels, so I will try to work around the side effects instead.

I have done quite a lot more high speed Autobahn driving now, and I am more certain than before that the occasional weaving from one side to the other is due to side wind/turbulence. When it happens I feel nothing trough the wheel, but the car changes direction slightly.

On the ride height issue I am almost 100% sure I do not run out of travel when driving normally or at high speed on the motorway. It could be I did when on track though. I will need to look into that more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
If you're already at the NBR, maybe get an appointment with Manthey Racing to setup your Car.
They know their stuff and track the best, just many think they only do Porsches and never ask them.

Regarding Oiltemp, which viscousity do you run currently? I'm on 0w-40 (Audi spec) and easily hit 130-140 degrees even on off-track spirited driving (Mountain roads). The GP-Track is hard on the engine and brakes.
Don't forget to check your pads if you're on CCB, since they're bad on track and wear uneven you might scratch your disc even if you see Pad left looking at it from the front.
 
1 - 6 of 6 Posts
Top