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60-130 times?
1/4mi ET / MPH?

Looks good! :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't have any good road data / track data, since these were customer cars. It's possible we have data from the dyno, but I'm sure everyone is more interested in Pbox / Drag times.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I have all the dyno data on our website, wheel, crank, gain over stock, for 91, 93 and E85. We tuned multiple vehicles both in house, and by flying to dealers / shops around the country.

91 Octane


93 Octane


E85


At our home office, we used our Dynapack Dyno, and our Mustang Dyno during development. We used our own tuning tools too, and wrote the software from the ground up (We don't buy and tweak, or simply resell someone else's file, like some do). Here's a little more information on our tuning tools (This is also on the website):

APR ECU Explorer

APR’s proprietary ECU Explorer gives APR’s Calibration Engineers unparalleled access to the vehicle’s entire engine management system. Typical commercially available data logging tools, used by most tuners, only allow logging up to 12 engine-operating variables at extremely low data rates. These tools are also limited to a small, specific list of variables. APR’s ECU Explorer is capable of logging every variable found within the ECU with far more variables logged at once, at very high data rates.

APR ECU Composer

APR’s proprietary ECU Composer is used for altering the engine management system. With full access to every table, map and variable within the ECU, APR’s Calibration Engineers are not limited to a handful of maps as is common for most tuning companies.

APR ECU Assembly

APR’s Electrical Engineers have the ability to alter the code structure of the ECU. Through code levels changes, APR's Engineers are able to add features to the ECU. Other changes allow higher torque limits than those achievable through only modifying calibration data or using piggyback devices as is the case for many tuners.

APR Direct Port Programming
APR’s DirectPort Programming is now available! Any APR Dealer in the world, connected to the Internet, has direct access to APR’s latest ECU upgrades for loading directly over the vehicle's OBD-II port. This completely eliminates the need to remove and open the ECU for currently available files and can be uninstalled at any time!

Here's one on our Mustang:

Here's one on our Dynapack:
 

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I have all the dyno data on our website, wheel, crank, gain over stock, for 91, 93 and E85. We tuned multiple vehicles both in house, and by flying to dealers / shops around the country.
Here's one on our Dynapack:
When I first saw this post from APR promoting its new ECU tune, I was struck by the Gen 2 R8 depicted in the last photo . . . I had seen the car before, but I could not remember where. Now I remember. In May 2017, VF Engineering installed its VF800 supercharger package on the same car: http://www.r8talk.com/forums/138-2nd-generation-discussion/133433-not-one-not-two-but-three-vf-engineering-vf800-supercharged-audi-r8-v10-plus-cars.html#post1203434 . Here is the same car with the VF800 package:





So, why did the owner of the car get an APR tune, then promptly switch to VF Engineering? He answers the question in a May 7 Instagram post: "I think the company that 'tuned' it made it worse" ( https://www.instagram.com/p/BTzIH2dhD5b/ ).

In short, APR is advertising its new ECU tune by reference to a car for which the owner was dissatisfied with the tune, believed that his car was "worse" after the tune, and quickly switched to VF Engineering. Interesting marketing strategy.
 

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Whoa. I actually even follow that guy and didn't recognize the car. Good eye.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
"I think the company that 'tuned' it made it worse"
We’re very confident in the software and we back it with a full 30-day money back guarantee.

The car above had some of our early beta software from many months back. Our production software released this week has many more enhancements, and picked up quite a bit more over what he already had, but obviously nowhere near what you can with a supercharger! But even that said, with the old beta tune, I don’t think it would be slower. Through our own dyno acceleration tests, we improved with each tune (91, 93 and E85). Our dealer feedback racing side-by-side with a stock car vs the production tunes resulted in the tuned car pulling away every time. It’s faster, period, and if it’s not, you can get your money back.

So, with that said I find it unlikely the car was truly slower. Throwing out things like density altitude, setup, track prep, and so on, which could all make the car slower, I’d give the claim credit under one condition. If the car was shifted in manual-mode to achieve the 9000 RPM, it’ll probably be slower at the drag strip. The transmission has a special mode called “Amax” which is activated when you use and stay in launch control mode, allowing the transmission to auto up-shift. It literally propels the car with each gear change. You’ve probably felt it. It feels faster and it is faster. If you manually shift, it will be slower. You should only manually shift when racing side-by-side from a roll, since Amax is never enabled during those conditions, and thus the higher RPM helps.
 

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What I don't get is how you have dyno chart showing both R8 and Huracan on it? A dyno chart should be on one car, why don't you show actual dyno sheets?
 

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What I don't get is how you have dyno chart showing both R8 and Huracan on it? A dyno chart should be on one car, why don't you show actual dyno sheets?
I am not an APR customer, and I am not in the market for a gen 2 R8 or Huracan, but in fairness to the dyno plots, one could argue that any single dyno plot of an R8 or Huracan would not necessarily reflect dyno results for any other R8 or Huracan either, obviously the single dyno plots illustrated for both vehicles should be taken only as an example of the gains made pre- and post-tuning for either vehicle, and since the gen 2 R8 and Huracan engines are essentially the same, the dyno plots displayed above can apply to both vehicles.

I am starting to see alot of "Tuner war" mentality creeping into this and other R8/Audi forums, and not just on this thread, with car owners and tuners trying to ding others' setups. I'm not even a moderator, but let's not turn this place into 6speedonline or audiboost....
 

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Here is some food for thought guys: The new Huracan Performante has only 30 hp more and they did some substantial hardware changes to achieve this kind of power. If a simple software update could have raised the power by 30 hp...well...
I talked to Daniel Abt (ABT Tuning, they are connected to Audi/VW directly and are basically the only tuner in Germany who gets a factory approved warranty for Audi and VW cars without any issues with the factory warranty) about the new R8 V10 Plus and why ABT doesn't offer more than a 20 hp power upgrade for the car. His reply was interesting: It was impossible to achieve more than 20 hp without risking the car's reliability. They achieve the 20 hp upgrade not only by software but also using a specifically adapted exhaust system. They were experimenting with various other methods to increase power, incl. a fuel cooling system but came to the conclusion that it harms the reliability of the car. ABT is the most reputable VW/Audi tuner in the world, just in case you don't know. One reason they have official ties with Audi/VW.

The R8 facelift is rumored to get a 20 hp power upgrade, using basically the tech used in the Performante.

So how could an independent tuner get 40 (reliable!) hp out of this n/a engine? In my opinion, not very likely.

If you have a V10 (not Plus!), an ECU tuning makes sense but for the Plus version? I would stay away from it.

Those 800+ hp supercharger or turbo kits are just nuts in my opinion, despite the fact that you ruin a wonderful n/a engine, the last of it's kind. I am even more surprised that people do such mods in speed limited countries, it just doesn't make sense. Drag racing? Seriously? Buy a Hellcat and enjoy destroying it on the drag strip. On the German Autobahn, these kits wouldn't survive for long, just imagine doing full throttle for a couple of minutes instead of a couple of seconds with a 800+ kit. Good luck with that!
 

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Here is some food for thought guys: The new Huracan Performante has only 30 hp more and they did some substantial hardware changes to achieve this kind of power. If a simple software update could have raised the power by 30 hp...well...
I talked to Daniel Abt (ABT Tuning, they are connected to Audi/VW directly and are basically the only tuner in Germany who gets a factory approved warranty for Audi and VW cars without any issues with the factory warranty) about the new R8 V10 Plus and why ABT doesn't offer more than a 20 hp power upgrade for the car. His reply was interesting: It was impossible to achieve more than 20 hp without risking the car's reliability. They achieve the 20 hp upgrade not only by software but also using a specifically adapted exhaust system. They were experimenting with various other methods to increase power, incl. a fuel cooling system but came to the conclusion that it harms the reliability of the car. ABT is the most reputable VW/Audi tuner in the world, just in case you don't know. One reason they have official ties with Audi/VW.

The R8 facelift is rumored to get a 20 hp power upgrade, using basically the tech used in the Performante.

So how could an independent tuner get 40 (reliable!) hp out of this n/a engine? In my opinion, not very likely.

If you have a V10 (not Plus!), an ECU tuning makes sense but for the Plus version? I would stay away from it.

Those 800+ hp supercharger or turbo kits are just nuts in my opinion, despite the fact that you ruin a wonderful n/a engine, the last of it's kind. I am even more surprised that people do such mods in speed limited countries, it just doesn't make sense. Drag racing? Seriously? Buy a Hellcat and enjoy destroying it on the drag strip. On the German Autobahn, these kits wouldn't survive for long, just imagine doing full throttle for a couple of minutes instead of a couple of seconds with a 800+ kit. Good luck with that!
It looks like they are advertising only 24HP gain on 91 and 93 octane (R+M/2), but 49HP on E85, I bet that's not a significant loss of reliability...
 

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Define "significant" loss? Main problem is: Once you do the mod, your warranty (at least engine, gearbox and drivetrain) is gone. Same goes to the "grace" warranty period some car manufacturers grant for major issues after the usual warranty runs out.
Look up the cost of a new V10 engine...you'll have the shock of your lifetime. ;)
If tuners tell you that the ECU mod is undetectable, they are lying. It is always detectable. Maybe not by the local dealer but once you have a major engine/gearbox/whatever failure, Audi will request certain ECU data and you're busted. Not worth it.
Just my personal opinion though, to each his own.

Btw: How would a 24 hp gain "translate" into real world performance on a 610 hp car? You will only feel it, MAYBE, in the upper speed range over 200 kph (125 mph). You need at least 10% more power to actually be able to feel it on such a car.

Or let's get even more food for thought: A German car magazine (one of the most reputable ones) did a review of the MTM Audi R8 with over 800 hp (supercharged, basically the kit which is sold widely in the US). From 0-100 kph, the stock car was faster. From 0-150 kph, the stock car was faster. Only from 0-160 kph (100 mph), the tuned R8 gained a few milli(!)seconds. The real performance gain (around one second) was noticeable from 0-200 kph (125 mph). From 200 kph (125 mph) to 300 kph (188 mph), things look differently. This is where you actually gain performance. When did you (or the majority here in the forum) drive 125 to 188 mph lately? LOL
I understand the passion of tuning pony/muscle cars, I had a 2013 Shelby GT500 myself, tuned to almost 750 hp but tuning a R8? What for? This is an amazing V10 n/a engined car, enjoy it like it is because in 10 years, such cars won't be made anymore. Instead people throw a turbo/supercharger on it, how crazy is that?!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
So how could an independent tuner get 40 (reliable!) hp out of this n/a engine?
E85 is a highly oxygenated and cooler burning fuel, which is fantastic for making more power. The oxygenation alone helps quite a bit while the rest of the properties of the fuel allow for more timing, where applicable (not so much on this platform though). On 91 and 93, we didn't get as much power, as one would expect. We were only able to get a little more than 2 HP per cylinder over stock at the largest delta. It took quite a bit of work to get to that point too, but none of it was stressful. Most only think of fueling and timing when it comes to naturally aspirated engines, but there are other moving parts we're able to adjust till we hit the sweet spot to very slightly improved VE. We're able to do that with ease because we're actually tuning the ecu, and not using a piggyback on this platform. It didn't net much per cylinder, but added up to a decent gain overall.
 

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If you have a V10 (not Plus!), an ECU tuning makes sense but for the Plus version? I would stay away from it.
^^^This^^^

Anyone that wants to go for the extra power go for it but having modified multiple platforms I just don't see the point in going ridiculous on this platform. Like you, I've had some quick American cars (boosted C6 vette and a C7) and currently own Godzilla (GT-R) with the R8 V10 Plus. If you really want to go fast don't jeopardize an expensive drivetrain for 20hp on a plus model. Break the Corvette or your Mustang and you can get it up and running for a fraction of what it costs on these higher end cars (R8, Huracan, GT-R, etc.). It makes sense on the V10 base given it's essentially the same engine detuned. Going from 610hp at the crank to maybe 630/640 is not going to make a big difference in day-to-day usage.

Boosting the R8 is a tempting option but if I were seriously considering that I would have bought a '14 S-Tronic for around 120k and dropped the 40k for the kit and been at 160k. That's less than a 2nd gen V10 plus. Wasn't in the cards.

As for E85, it's awesome. I run it and go through it like water in my GT-R. Google it...very safe. It's almost equivalent to running 104 octane. Cooler charge temps. I get a significant ramp up of mid range torque along with more top end pulling power.

E85 is a highly oxygenated and cooler burning fuel, which is fantastic for making more power. The oxygenation alone helps quite a bit while the rest of the properties of the fuel allow for more timing, where applicable (not so much on this platform though). On 91 and 93, we didn't get as much power, as one would expect. We were only able to get a little more than 2 HP per cylinder over stock at the largest delta. It took quite a bit of work to get to that point too, but none of it was stressful. Most only think of fueling and timing when it comes to naturally aspirated engines, but there are other moving parts we're able to adjust till we hit the sweet spot to very slightly improved VE. We're able to do that with ease because we're actually tuning the ecu, and not using a piggyback on this platform. It didn't net much per cylinder, but added up to a decent gain overall.
Not that I would touch this car but to run the R8 on E85 does anything need to be changed? Would be good to know for those who are considering it (plus I'm curious). Fuel lines? Injectors? etc.
 
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