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Discussion Starter #1
Guys,

You may have seen from my previous post that I am in the market for an early R8. One thing I didn't expect is how big a spread in prices there are and these I guess are largely due to the mileage on the clock. I have seen 2007 R8's starting at £35k for a 100k miler to £50k+ for a 20k miles example.

Having come from previous fast german sports cars like Porsches and BMW M's where I think mileage isn't a huge deal, I am surprised that the R8 is this sensitive to mileage as I believe the R8 was labelled as an everyday supercar so you would expect people to be driving them more!

Now I am not so sure what is considered high mileage on an early R8, so would be interested in your opinions? I know for a ferrari or lamborghini anything above 40k is seen as high mileage :eek: but surely the R8 doesn't fall into the same bucket?

I have no issue personally buying a high mileage car as long as the history, condition, drive, spec etc all are good. But don't want to end up with a car that nobody would then want to buy when the time comes to sell, so any advice would be appreciated.
 

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I know when I speak for myself that mileage does bother me even though I know its really not the be all and end all. I wish it was something that didn't bother me. I bought mine on 42k done a massive 3k in the year I have had it and its still something I find niggles away at me.

Even though the car is more than capable of putting high miles on, very few people do. I would say your average for an 07 is probably around 40-50k, but as i'm sure you're seeing there is a massive array of cars from some with 10k to 100k. I often check out the B7 RS4's and your lucky to find many of them sub 40k, most are knocking on for 80-100k nowadays. Then you've got a big difference in what people use these for.

I think if you buy something with average mileage you'll probably be able to move it on without too much hassle, but with the higher mileage people are concerned that big bills could be on the horizon. Clutch and mag ride probably being peoples big worries.
 

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While marketing folks dream up things like "everyday supercar," that's barely the reality for buyers. CAN you drive the R8 every day? Sure - to some extent. There have been plenty of threads on the forum discussing the DD-ability of the R8, but what you'll find time and time again is that MOST owners (75%+ from our last forum poll) don't use the R8 on a daily basis. Hence, mileage tends to rack up much like it would in any weekend/fun car - perhaps 2k - 5k miles per year, as opposed to 10k - 15k/year for people DD'ing cars.

While I don't think the R8 is that sensitive to mileage, the fact is that people still perceive value in lower mileage cars. To a certain extent, they're right. While the engines and components of these cars may be relatively robust (compared to more fragile exotics), cars with higher mileage see other forms of wear and tear unrelated to engines (e.g. leather wear, seat bolsters, carpets/headliners, paint chips/wear, squeaks and rattles that develop with use, etc). The more expensive the car, and the bigger the spread on mileage, the bigger the spread will be on pricing.

A higher mileage car can still be very well looked-after as far as wear goes - while lower mileage ones can be abused and worn even worse. So, by no means is it a golden rule - but just a generality.

Lastly, I'd say that cars with TOO FEW miles are also ones I'd stay away from. These are still mechanical "things" that needs to be exercised to keep parts moving, seals lubricated, hoses and plastics from rotting, etc. So a 10 year old car with 2k miles isn't something I'd find appealing, personally. I'd just look for some rational amount of mileage per year, and then go for the best example you can find.
 

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While marketing folks dream up things like "everyday supercar," that's barely the reality for buyers. CAN you drive the R8 every day? Sure - to some extent. There have been plenty of threads on the forum discussing the DD-ability of the R8, but what you'll find time and time again is that MOST owners (75%+ from our last forum poll) don't use the R8 on a daily basis. Hence, mileage tends to rack up much like it would in any weekend/fun car - perhaps 2k - 5k miles per year, as opposed to 10k - 15k/year for people DD'ing cars.

While I don't think the R8 is that sensitive to mileage, the fact is that people still perceive value in lower mileage cars. To a certain extent, they're right. While the engines and components of these cars may be relatively robust (compared to more fragile exotics), cars with higher mileage see other forms of wear and tear unrelated to engines (e.g. leather wear, seat bolsters, carpets/headliners, paint chips/wear, squeaks and rattles that develop with use, etc). The more expensive the car, and the bigger the spread on mileage, the bigger the spread will be on pricing.

A higher mileage car can still be very well looked-after as far as wear goes - while lower mileage ones can be abused and worn even worse. So, by no means is it a golden rule - but just a generality.

Lastly, I'd say that cars with TOO FEW miles are also ones I'd stay away from. These are still mechanical "things" that needs to be exercised to keep parts moving, seals lubricated, hoses and plastics from rotting, etc. So a 10 year old car with 2k miles isn't something I'd find appealing, personally. I'd just look for some rational amount of mileage per year, and then go for the best example you can find.
This was exactly my logic when I was shopping for my car. I bought a car with approx 30K miles and was still under warranty. The worst thing for a vehicle is when it sits for extended periods of time. I was much more comfortable knowing a car had been driven, serviced, and regularly lubricated by being driven.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Interesting feedback.

I think I need to adjust my thinking on what is considered high mileage for early R8 (I had in my mind 80k+ is high) but it sounds like 30-40k for a 10 year old R8 is deemed normal, anything higher then the car has to have some seriously good points elsewhere.
 

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Interesting feedback.

I think I need to adjust my thinking on what is considered high mileage for early R8 (I had in my mind 80k+ is high) but it sounds like 30-40k for a 10 year old R8 is deemed normal, anything higher then the car has to have some seriously good points elsewhere.
Yes, I would say that is normal but there are plenty of good examples of cars with higher mileage. It all depends on the history of the car, how it's been driven etc. and unfortunately with the 2nd hand market that's impossible to know. Hence a PPI is absolutely mandatory.

If I was buying a higher mileage car (> 40k/50k miles) you'd be looking for a comprehensive history of any work that's been done especially on known issues such as the AC unit, mag ride and the like together with wear and tear items such as the gearbox and clutch. But if this isn't available, a PPI should give you a "health check" and what costs may loom close.

Any 2nd car is a risk though and you can lose out on a decent vehicle by spending an endless amount of time doing due diligence. Best is to familiarise yourself with the market, know what the prices are, know what you definitely want and what you're prepared to compromise on and regularly scan the market.
 

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Cars with lower miles are always going to pull more $$$. Typically less wear on body, better condition etc. Service records are helpful.
 

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Yes, I would say that is normal but there are plenty of good examples of cars with higher mileage. It all depends on the history of the car, how it's been driven etc. and unfortunately with the 2nd hand market that's impossible to know. Hence a PPI is absolutely mandatory.

If I was buying a higher mileage car (> 40k/50k miles) you'd be looking for a comprehensive history of any work that's been done especially on known issues such as the AC unit, mag ride and the like together with wear and tear items such as the gearbox and clutch. But if this isn't available, a PPI should give you a "health check" and what costs may loom close.

Any 2nd car is a risk though and you can lose out on a decent vehicle by spending an endless amount of time doing due diligence. Best is to familiarise yourself with the market, know what the prices are, know what you definitely want and what you're prepared to compromise on and regularly scan the market.
Miles are everything on a supercar relative to pricing, so depends on if you plan to keep it or not. I plan on keeping mine so it was less important. I didn't want one with 100k on it, but 50 should be no big deal if the price is right. I found that early in the shopping process I sweat that stuff too much. End of the day, its just a used car and sooner or later will need maintenance. I've bought plenty of cars with nothing more than a cursory check and when stuff wears out I replace it. Even though my car came from the dealer, they had almost no history on it, even though it had always been local. Usually these things end up all over the country. Other things being equal, I buy based more on how much I trust the seller more than anything. If you can afford the car, you can afford to replace shocks or whatever - its just the big stuff you want to make sure are solid though there's no way you can ensure the AC or clutch or shocks won't fail 2 minutes after you get it anyway. In some sense it feels like people are disproportionitely worried about regular mainteance on these relative to the cost of the car. If you think you will worry about each mile you put on it, better to not get something like this. In the end, I bought from a dealer but didn't do a PPI and bought sight unseen then flew in and drove it cross country home. Mine had 25k miles on it, and I plan to more or less daily drive it until the wheels fall off unless I get a good opportunity to swap for a V10 at some point.
 

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Miles are everything on a supercar relative to pricing, so depends on if you plan to keep it or not. I plan on keeping mine so it was less important. I didn't want one with 100k on it, but 50 should be no big deal if the price is right. I found that early in the shopping process I sweat that stuff too much. End of the day, its just a used car and sooner or later will need maintenance. I've bought plenty of cars with nothing more than a cursory check and when stuff wears out I replace it. Even though my car came from the dealer, they had almost no history on it, even though it had always been local. Usually these things end up all over the country. Other things being equal, I buy based more on how much I trust the seller more than anything. If you can afford the car, you can afford to replace shocks or whatever - its just the big stuff you want to make sure are solid though there's no way you can ensure the AC or clutch or shocks won't fail 2 minutes after you get it anyway. In some sense it feels like people are disproportionitely worried about regular mainteance on these relative to the cost of the car. If you think you will worry about each mile you put on it, better to not get something like this. In the end, I bought from a dealer but didn't do a PPI and bought sight unseen then flew in and drove it cross country home. Mine had 25k miles on it, and I plan to more or less daily drive it until the wheels fall off unless I get a good opportunity to swap for a V10 at some point.
Couldn't agree more (on the bold type) and I think this forum, unintentionally of course, contributes to that. There are more discussions regarding problems and issues (natural on a forum where people are so willing to help and share knowledge) vs. the fantastic thing that is owning one! Most would think the R8 is a problematic as a Ferrari, Aston Martin or Lambo but in short they're probably the most practical supercar you can buy, both in relation to usability and maintenance.

However at the end of the day unless you're buying new, it's always a punt in the end!
 

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Miles are everything on a supercar relative to pricing, so depends on if you plan to keep it or not. I plan on keeping mine so it was less important. I didn't want one with 100k on it, but 50 should be no big deal if the price is right. I found that early in the shopping process I sweat that stuff too much. End of the day, its just a used car and sooner or later will need maintenance. I've bought plenty of cars with nothing more than a cursory check and when stuff wears out I replace it. Even though my car came from the dealer, they had almost no history on it, even though it had always been local. Usually these things end up all over the country. Other things being equal, I buy based more on how much I trust the seller more than anything. If you can afford the car, you can afford to replace shocks or whatever - its just the big stuff you want to make sure are solid though there's no way you can ensure the AC or clutch or shocks won't fail 2 minutes after you get it anyway. In some sense it feels like people are disproportionitely worried about regular mainteance on these relative to the cost of the car. If you think you will worry about each mile you put on it, better to not get something like this. In the end, I bought from a dealer but didn't do a PPI and bought sight unseen then flew in and drove it cross country home. Mine had 25k miles on it, and I plan to more or less daily drive it until the wheels fall off unless I get a good opportunity to swap for a V10 at some point.
I agree with. Generally speaking, cars are going to depreciate no matter what so you might as well drive it. I have a friend that bought a nice car years ago and never wanted wanted to put mileage on it. He always babied it and spent a ton of money modifying it. He bought a beater as a daily driver so he never touched the nice car. In the end, the nice car got stolen and he never really got a chance to enjoy it. So in the end, he spent his days in the car that was falling apart while the theif got to drive his pride and joy. It made no sense to me. If I spend money on something, it's so I can use it. I'm certainly not going to buy something so it can collect dust.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
totally agree on buying a 2nd hand car being a punt. I have owned many cars in my time and have never bought from a dealer/trader so you could argue it is taking a bigger risk as there is no come back. I do this simply because I want to always meet the person selling the car as this gives the best feel of how the car has been maintained and you learn more about the history apart beyond a stamped service book. I don't think the R8 will be any different and if I can find one from someone selling privately I would be much happier with that.
 

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Often contributors have questioned the risks of purchasing very low mileage vehicles.
I have owned exotic/collector cars for almost 50 years and except for my new 67' Corvette which I drove regularly, my special cars have never been driven regularly. No winter/rain use and rarely more than 500 miles annually. They have been serviced regularly i.e. Synthetic oil and brake fluid every two years, coolant change every four years, etc. Trickle chargers keep the batteries in order.
I have never had any significant issues arise from lack of use and have owned some cars for as long as 20 years.
IMO a low mileage carefully maintained vehicle is your best choice especially with cars like our beloved R8's.
 

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I guess.....You kinda just gotta realize that the r8 actually is in the ferrari lambo world.

Its an exotic car. An entry level cheaper exotic but never the less still exotic and rare car.

So when you are talking about ten year old ferraris and lambos...Id say you can get away with 35-40k max before the value takes a big hit.

With the R8....Id say 45-50k max miles for a 2007 before the value takes a big hit.

In reg cars or even corvettes and 911s you can get away with 60k plus miles no prob.
 

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I'd say thats about right for the UK too.

Strange that 911's really are perceived as an every day sports car compared to the R8. Must be the back seats!

If you want a 10 year old 911 then mileage more often that not is in the 60k+ region.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'd say thats about right for the UK too.

Strange that 911's really are perceived as an every day sports car compared to the R8. Must be the back seats!

If you want a 10 year old 911 then mileage more often that not is in the 60k+ region.
I had a Porsche 911 and sold it with over 70k on the clock within days of advertising it so certainly would agree that the Porsches don't seem to be as sensitive to mileage despite new values being very similar to the R8.

I have never had too much trouble finding a particular marque of car when in the used market but with the Audi R8 I am finding it surprisingly more difficult than any other search I have undertaken. I think a big part of this is my budget which to be honest is at the lower end of the range so restricted to 2007-2009 cars. When I do find the cars that are within my budget they have always got something about them that doesn't sit quite right, whether it be colour combo, spec (i.e. no mag or B&O, or some without even parking sensors :eek:), the condition/way it drives, the history on the car, or the mileage etc

I have decided I need to focus on whats most important to me, and of that list I think the way it drives (supported with a good maintenance history), and a good spec are probably going to be the priority. I am resigned to the fact that I won't get all the boxes ticked but I think these two things will make the experience of ownership the most pleasant.
 

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I think what you're finding mirrored my experience.

I had a budget of around £50k, but at the time there really wasn't much on the market that met my requirements. I think the problem also was I was coming from a 2012 M3 with every option ticked so it felt a of a backward step. I think time again I would have stretched to £60k as I've ended up spending that on bits that I wanted anyway.

My impatience is my problem.
 

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If I spend money on something, it's so I can use it. I'm certainly not going to buy something so it can collect dust. ( GARAGE QUEEN )
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As of 4 weeks ago I was planning on getting a 2010 Gallardo. But then after giving some serious thought to the fact that I wanted a ' Somewhat Daily Driver ' I switched to looking for an R8. BUY IT..DRIVE IT...
 

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I'd say thats about right for the UK too.

Strange that 911's really are perceived as an every day sports car compared to the R8. Must be the back seats!

If you want a 10 year old 911 then mileage more often that not is in the 60k+ region.
The "every day sports car" image is also partly due to availability and "common" nature of the 911. Here in the US, if you look at the number of Gen-1 R8's sold from 2007 - 2015 and compare it to 911's, it's roughly 6,500 R8's and nearly 10x that (60k+) for the 911. A much smaller supply of R8s, and a much more exotic design, along with less every day practicality (no back seats), makes the R8 more in common with the image of traditional supercar than every day sports car.
 

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The R8 is not that mileage sensitive in South East Asia.

Many dealers only start to import them when the cars have depreciated by half in the overseas market so this typically means the imported used cars are 3-5 years old and have mileage averaging 20-40k km on the clock.

As such, we are conditioned to buy higher mileage used cars and still willingly pay more than the original msrp thanks to our fabulous tax structure. :(
 

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The "every day sports car" image is also partly due to availability and "common" nature of the 911. Here in the US, if you look at the number of Gen-1 R8's sold from 2007 - 2015 and compare it to 911's, it's roughly 6,500 R8's and nearly 10x that (60k+) for the 911. A much smaller supply of R8s, and a much more exotic design, along with less every day practicality (no back seats), makes the R8 more in common with the image of traditional supercar than every day sports car.
Fully agree on this and
First: 911 are overrated due to their image as the perfect sports car while R8 is totally underrated.
2nd: a everyday car what is it really: you drive 95% alone and 4% with 2nd person, you have two bags of groceries to take home and a weekend trip even to a dancing ball is done with 2 hand luggage suitcases and 2 cloth bags. All this can be done with a 911 or R8. And for the rest of 1% left=5-10 days effectively a year where more people or luggage space needed my wife drives an VW Passat station wagon or I rent a van....

I was exactly on that point when I decided I am getting now a proper sports car:
I could get a well taken car 911 GTS stick shift from a good friend from 2011 with 65 tkm on it which was driven daily for 75k CHF or an R8V8 rtronic registered in 2012 but build in 2008 with 24tkm on which was driven by a 64years old Rolce Royce collectors summer daily car for 55k CHF, rest of the time it was in the climatisated hall with his 37 Rolce Royce cars.

The 911 GTS would be the perfect car to keep 2 years, put 30ktm on it and sell it for sure for 60kCHF.
Or get the R8 drive it the next 5 years and put 70 Tkm on it and afterwards see what market is: expect bottom line price of an R8 will be around 25TCHF, good taken care R8 will always go for 30-35tChf. So sell it then and have driven a supercar for 5K a year or keep it afterwards as weekend car or stripped as tracktool or continue to drive it daily as it doesn't loose more then 1000 or 2000 a year after, so most likely I will keep it..I have free maintenance till 2021 on it, the rest I do 90% myself and all body parts are screwed so if you have panel damages or heavy stones chips easily replaced buy used parts from young accident cars with same color for small money.
So I got the R8V8 as much more car for less money then the 911 GTS.

Nobody cares about 911 here in CH anymore (ok the GT 2 and 3 ones yes). but with the R8 debadged (no Audi sign anywhere) I get compliments and questions min. once a week what brand that stylish sports car is from youngsters till 70 years old grandma's. Didn't expect this at all...
Also well accepted everywhere as a stylish sporty business car, no single bad comment from anybody I done business with but often a starting point for an interesting talk. Couldn't be happier with my choice....ok a R8 spyder would be even better but there is always room for improvement and I keep my eyes open, maybe in 2-3years a spyder will be my new daily and the coupe my tracktool...
 
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