[Trev450]

I'm hoping it will make a big difference, especially when combined with a total current (calculated) weight loss being 109.194 kg less than when I started. I think there is another kg to be found without carving up the car. Not to mention the final predicted jump in hp.

I'm sure that will make a highly noticible difference. I'll be interested to hear your feedback once it's up and running.

 

[FoD]

Awesome project! I’ve put my engine build off until I see your results.
You keeping Quattro? What seats do you have? Those are major weight loss areas as well.

 

[LA88AT]

Awesome project! I’ve put my engine build off until I see your results.
You keeping Quattro? What seats do you have? Those are major weight loss areas as well.

Hi, I'm keeping the Quattro system, I think it helps hall it out of corners on the track.
I have a pair of Recaro CCS's

If it helps, the biggest savings came from:
Seats save 33.200kg, Front CCB's save 4.940kg, Rear CCB's save 8.280kg, Antigravity H6/Group-48 save 24.390kg and Capristo exhaust saves 19.050kg. Everything else and there's a lot, is under 2kgs.

 

[LA88AT]

Gen 2 Inlet camshaft, HP fuel pump lobe, modified to fit the Gen1 ladder.
Picture 1: Gen1 & Gen2
Picture 3: Before and After

The wider Gen 2 lobe stops the camshaft rotating.

 

[LA88AT]

 

[speedrs4]

Hi

What should be the end result in terms of performance?


Tom

 

[LA88AT]

Hi,
Worst case scenario should deliver 706hp, assuming that head porting and other variable have no effect.
If the math is correct and all variables translate into tangible hp, the build should deliver between 742 -757 hp.

The numbers in the table below were calculated based on the verified numbers, weight, hp, etc. After the calculations were complete and reproduced/matched each verified figure, I simply updated the hp, weight, power, torque and increased RPM in the calculated column. This the allows me to generate scenarios, based on perfect conditions, in the calculated column.

	Verified LMS R8 v10	Verified R8 v10 GT	Verified R8 v10 Perf	Verified R8 v10 Manual	R8 v10 Manual	calculated R8 V10 Manual	calculated R8 V10 Manual	calculated R8 V10 Manual 12.5	calculated R8 V10 Manual 13.1	calculated 12.5 R8 V10 Performance % increase	calculated 13.1 R8 V10 Performance % increase
Weight	1250.0	1525.0	1595.0	1620.0	1620.0	1554.5	1525.7	1525.7	1509.1	0.94	0.93
HP	560.0	560.0	611.5	520.0	593.2	601.4	610.2	631.7	757.3	21.48%	45.64%
TQ	398.3	398.3	428.0	391.0	461.9	469.7	476.0	490.5	505.7	25.46%	29.33%
0-62 MT time	3.0	3.6	2.9	3.6	3.1	3.0	2.9	2.8	2.2	-23.55%	-39.39%
0-124	10.8	10.8	9.0	11.5	9.9	9.2	8.9	8.7	7.0	-24.66%	-39.39%
Top Speed		201.0	206.0	197.0	197.0	200.9	200.9	200.9	219.6	1.96%	11.49%
124-0 MT time	103.4	126.1	131.9	134.0	134.0	128.6	126.2	126.2	124.8	-5.82%	-6.84%
62-0 MT time	84.1	102.6	107.3	109.0	109.0	104.6	102.7	102.7	101.5	-5.82%	-6.84%
rpm red/line	8700	8700	8700	8700	8700	8700	8700	8700	9700.0	0.00%	11.49%

 

[LA88AT]

The next table shows the difference between the same work being performed but with Gen1 and gen 2 camshafts.
12.5 CR is with Gen1 cams and the and the equivalent output with 13.1 CR.
The bottom half is with the 13.1 CR but with Gen2 cams.

Note: All the 12.5 CR figures, down to the PTB line, are factual/proven numbers.

CR	MOD	MD %	HP		EQV 13.1	CR	MOD	MD %	TQ		EQV 13.1
12.5	525	100.00	525.0	%	550.2	12.5	391.125	100.00	391.1	%	409.9
	ECU	111.50	585.4	1.12	613.5		ECU	115.28	450.9	2.82	472.5
	Exh	113.10	593.8	1.01	622.3		Exh	118.10	461.9	1.02	484.1
	Ind	114.99	603.7	1.02	632.7		Ind	120.08	469.7	1.02	492.2
	PTB	116.35	610.8	1.01	640.1		PTB	121.50	475.21	1.01	498.0
	ExMan	119.31	626.4	1.03	656.5		ExMan	124.60	487.3	1.03	510.7
	Head	125.41	658.4	1.05	690.0		Head	127.22	497.6	1.02	521.5
	WPC	127.95	671.8	1.02	704.0		WPC	129.80	507.7	1.02	532.1
	SC	141.14	741.0	1.13	776.6		SC	135.59	530.3	1.07	555.8
	Hed/SC	148.90	781.7	1.05	819.2		Hed/SC	143.05	559.5	1.06	586.4
	All-ECU	151.87	797.3	1.02	835.6		All-ECU	146.15	571.63	1.02	599.1
13.1	639.3	100.00	629.7	%		13.1	432.1	100.00	419.6	%
	ECU	104.80	660.0	1.05			ECU	107.03	449.1	1.07
	Exh	106.30	669.4	1.01			Exh	109.65	460.1	1.02
	Ind	118.55	680.6	1.02			Ind	111.49	467.8	1.02
	PTB	119.95	688.6	1.01			PTB	112.80	473.3	1.01
	ExMan	133.72	706.2	1.03			ExMan	115.68	485.4	1.03
	Head	140.55	742.3	1.05			Head	118.12	495.6	1.02
	WPC	143.40	757.3	1.02			WPC	121.8	505.7	1.03
	Hed/SC	164.13	996.1	1.34			Hed/SC	160.16	636.7	1.31
	All-ECU	167.40	1004.2	1.01			All-ECU	163.63	642.2	1.02

 

[speedrs4]

Hi

A French tuner has optimized a 4S V10 with E85 to 701 HP (German) and with normal Super Plus 98 octane to 675 HP. You will achieve your desired performance, but at what price? it would be easier to equip the 4S V10 with a special intake manifold where the big TB from the Ferrari 812 fit and they will reach 720-730 HP. ( E85 )

Tom

 

[LA88AT]

Hi

A French tuner has optimized a 4S V10 with E85 to 701 HP (German) and with normal Super Plus 98 octane to 675 HP. You will achieve your desired performance, but at what price? it would be easier to equip the 4S V10 with a special intake manifold where the big TB from the Ferrari 812 fit and they will reach 720-730 HP. ( E85 )

Tom

Is there an article or a link to the tuner, it would be good for research?
Also I'm replacing the air ducts and Air box, increasing everything to 4" to encourage volume and hopefully increase the RAM effect. Not as good as a custom inlet manifold, but it should help.

My main concern is the ambient inlet temperatures. The Porsche GT3 RS has 13.1CR as well and over 20C it changes the map and again at 25C, each change reduces hp to avoid knock. Having said that I think the 458 has 14.1 CR, so it's all down to the tuner I guess and how much the ECU can retard timing if the ambient Air temperature is high.

 

[LA88AT]

Is this the car?
Straight-Piped 700 HP Audi R8 V10 RWS Nürburgring Onboard - YouTube

 

[nicocaps]

Is this the car?
Straight-Piped 700 HP Audi R8 V10 RWS Nürburgring Onboard - YouTube

meow really nice video. I watched the whole thing. I didn’t understand which long tube headers he said he had?
I know he said KW clubsports, girodisc & pagids, IPE exhaust, tune w map switching incl. 93+ octane and E85. Not sure what else he had (aside from the exterior mods).

 

[LA88AT]

meow really nice video. I watched the whole thing. I didn’t understand which long tube headers he said he had?
I know he said KW clubsports, girodisc & pagids, IPE exhaust, tune w map switching incl. 93+ octane and E85. Not sure what else he had (aside from the exterior mods).

The headers are EVOX Race Headers. I looked into them before I purchased the LMS manifolds. The only issue I had was, they didn't supply them with Race Cats and didn't have any data to support the claimed increase in performance.
Is the (685) 15hp increase, up from the known 670hp, due to the de-cat or the long tube design? If it's just down to the Cats, maybe just gutting a standard set of manifolds would deliver the additional 15hp?
After looking at the LMS manifolds, I'm convinced that the extra power is only due to the better/high flow Cats, the tube design appears to be identical to the standard manifolds.

 

[speedrs4]

Use the GTT inlet manifold with adapter for the Ferrari 812 TB ( 92mm ) and you will reach 720-730 HP.

Tom

 

[bavarianstance]

this thread is awesome. NA power FTW!

 

[ExpertRanch]

Is it possible to use a Ferrari 458 intake manifold with the V8 and use the stock plenum or larger opening plenum? Or do they make one that fits the larger TB?

 

[LA88AT]

Is it possible to use a Ferrari 458 intake manifold with the V8 and use the stock plenum or larger opening plenum? Or do they make one that fits the larger TB?

Hi, I think Tom's conversion to V10 TB's on the Audi V8 inlet manifold is the closest you will get. The reference above uses the (Bosch) 812 TB's, the inlet manifold in the link is designed for the V10 and not a conversion. I doubt any of the proprietary Ferrari parts will fit.

 

[speedrs4]

Hi

I don't know if the 812 TB are from Bosch, if they were from Bosch they would be compatible because all Bosch TB are identical in mechanical and electrical construction.

At Bosch there are only three sizes from TB > 68mm > 74.5mm and 82mm.

The intake manifold shown in the link is perfect for free suction vehicles in terms of flow behavior. All other special intake manifolds are built for turbo and are therefore not so good in terms of flow technology.


Tom

 

[speedrs4]

Hi

The R8 V8 doesn't like single manifolds per cylinder bank like the Ferrari ones.
I converted the R8 V8 intake manifold to two chamber years ago, it doesn't work because of the firing order.

Tom

Is it possible to use a Ferrari 458 intake manifold with the V8 and use the stock plenum or larger opening plenum? Or do they make one that fits the larger TB?

 

[LA88AT]

View attachment 275002

Use the GTT inlet manifold with adapter for the Ferrari 812 TB ( 92mm ) and you will reach 720-730 HP.

View attachment 275003
Tom

Hi

I don't know if the 812 TB are from Bosch, if they were from Bosch they would be compatible because all Bosch TB are identical in mechanical and electrical construction.

At Bosch there are only three sizes from TB > 68mm > 74.5mm and 82mm.

The intake manifold shown in the link is perfect for free suction vehicles in terms of flow behavior. All other special intake manifolds are built for turbo and are therefore not so good in terms of flow technology.


Tom

I stand corrected, thanks Tom!

Also I spoke to Gosha and they only have the AMS intake available, but as you say the AMS it is not optimise for NA vehicles.