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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How long are we willing to take this abuse from the AUDI Dealerships?
I had the honor to drive the R8 in August ‘07 in Hamburg Germany , yes guys the car is in the showroom and you can go in and buy it, and they even let you drive it! No BS list from Dealerships and try to suck us out for 25K some even try 50K over sticker and the worst is that AUDI USA let them do it! This is a scandal for people who realy love to drive this car and not to speculate with it on E bay!
I drive currently a Porsche Carrera S Conv ‘06 and had on order the new 911 Turbo Conv and put it on hold but after the BS “ List” what the Audi dealer try to pull on us I canceled everything with AUDI and Stay with Porsche , thanks AUDI but you like to play with the big boys then start to learn how to treat the BIG BOYS THE RIGHT WAY!
People get of this List at the Dealerships this is a trick to create a fake high demand there are enough cars coming and there will be enough cars build. Later on they will offer 10K of sticker just to move it!
Same try with Bentley GT …They try to get out of me in 05 , 15K over Sticker, I bought the Car with 7K under!!!

PS: the TURBO is the better CAR will keep his value for sure , who knows what will happened with the R8 …for me NO MORE AUDI for me!
 

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I hope anyone who buys a car on eBay remembers the principle of caveat emptor and is aware of the fact that a fair portion of eBay sales have at least some fraudulent claims in the listing.

A dealer in La Jolla, California is offering an R8 for $189,000 and claims it only has 111 miles on it. But one of the photos of the car's instrument guage shows 111 miles on the trip odometer. The actual cumulative mileage showing on the car is 713.
 

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Sorry not sure what this rant is about and from what country it is based on.

A car dealer trying to rip you off?
 

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Just because a dealership happened to have a car doesn't mean there is enough supply for the entire market.

Having long waiting lists means audi will actually lose business (and hence money) as people who don't want to wait or pay a premium go to different marques.

PS: the TURBO is the better CAR will keep his value for sure , who knows what will happened with the R8 …for me NO MORE AUDI for me!
Clearly that isn't a view shared by everyone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
hmp10 I agree with you, but in my case was not any E bay sales in my case it was a big AUDI Porsche Dealer in the US/Florida/ Champion Motor Cars! and I had the same experience with the West Palm Beach Porsche/Audi Dealer Brahman, thats the Scandal, so 2 big dealer try to rip off costumer ! This is all bin done and AUDI USA dose not do anything about it! As long we have people out there who are stupid enough to pay over Sticker so long it will go on!
To the Value, I guarantee you if somebody buys the R8 with 25K over sticker he is loosing in 2 years 50K ! you don't loose that much with any Porsche Turbo or Lambo or Ferrari !
And anyway, WHY DO WE NEED ANY LIST????? why the Dealer do not just take purchase orders like it is in Germany?? very simple sign a contract and you are in the order they receive you will get the car, is that not the real fair way to deal with Customers? NO they start BS list where you have no control over, they can sell your car anytime to anybody who is willing to pay more, thats why this list exist!
 

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The R8 will be readily available in about a year I assume but as far as holding value after people drive these they are amazing and will keep there value. But to Say Porsche and Lambo do not loose value is insane. My 2004 Gallardo was 200k and worth 130 at present time what a bath!! My 2007 911 turbo 135k sticker current value 112 its well on its way to 100k in the next few weeks. The audi cars are going to stay at 25k over sticker for sometime but also take into consideration we are not in peak sports car season wait till spring due to spring coming the car will keep hot.



hmp10 I agree with you, but in my case was not any E bay sales in my case it was a big AUDI Porsche Dealer in the US/Florida/ Champion Motor Cars! and I had the same experience with the West Palm Beach Porsche/Audi Dealer Brahman, thats the Scandal, so 2 big dealer try to rip off costumer ! This is all bin done and AUDI USA dose not do anything about it! As long we have people out there who are stupid enough to pay over Sticker so long it will go on!
To the Value, I guarantee you if somebody buys the R8 with 25K over sticker he is loosing in 2 years 50K ! you don't loose that much with any Porsche Turbo or Lambo or Ferrari !
And anyway, WHY DO WE NEED ANY LIST????? why the Dealer do not just take purchase orders like it is in Germany?? very simple sign a contract and you are in the order they receive you will get the car, is that not the real fair way to deal with Customers? NO they start BS list where you have no control over, they can sell your car anytime to anybody who is willing to pay more, thats why this list exist!
 

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To the Value, I guarantee you if somebody buys the R8 with 25K over sticker he is loosing in 2 years 50K ! you don't loose that much with any Porsche Turbo or Lambo or Ferrari !
You OBVIOUSLY have not purchased a Turbo or you would know that the minute you drive the Turbo off the Porsche lot you have lost $25K. I had a 2005 Turbo "S" Cab, one of 100 in the US, drove it 10K miles in 1 year and sold it privately for a much better price than market price and still lost $25,000. The Porsche Turbo is notorious for retaining value - NOT! Lambo is not a lot different in retained value when compared to the Turbo with the only exception possibly being the Ferrari, however the production numbers and import numbers are much less than the Audi R8 or the Porsche Turbo.

Market adjustment pricing for the R8 is pure speculation and is not being validated by the cars offered on eBay since virtually none have sold at adjusted pricing. A VERY FEW Dealers may be asking and getting over MSRP on R8 resales but most dealers are delivering cars to enthusiasts who have put down deposits and patiently waited for those cars to arrive, mine included. It is indeed unfortunate that you got caught up in such a dispicible sales tactic but it is simply not fair to label all Audi dealers nor are all Audi dealers failing to deliver as promised.

This same senario is going to play out with the forthcoming release of the Nissan GT-R. I talked to two dealers that I know personally and was told by both that they expect the first six months production will go off the showroom floor at $50K over MSRP, and they won't have to make them used or pre-owned to get the market adjustment.
 

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BADMONEY2,

Here in UK, no Audi dealer can sell new cars above list. They cannot bump you off the list either.

[for used cars, their is no such restriction and they are free to sell used above new list price, not a situation anyone could have forseen]

Audi UK are very good - and very strict - in this regard, and they (Audi UK) write to everyone who has ordered a car.

They are also taking a hard line on known speculators who have ordered catrs to resell.

Also, don't forget we are paying a lot more in UK and Europe than you are.

Basic UK list is GBP £76,000+ = USD $156,000 at current exchange rates.

Blame your dealer for your problems, not Audi USA.
 

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My Audi Dealer, Bob Moore Audi in Oklahoma City, USA, has from the beginning always told me that on any of the cars they have or order, the price will be MSRP or less, never above sticker. I have several Audi Dealerships to choose from and I take my business to Bob Moore because of their pricing and the service after the sale. I am always treated well. They sell Porsche and Infinity too. I don't think Audi USA is as precise as Audi in the EU but it's not all the Dealers fault.
 

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You OBVIOUSLY have not purchased a Turbo or you would know that the minute you drive the Turbo off the Porsche lot you have lost $25K. I had a 2005 Turbo "S" Cab, one of 100 in the US, drove it 10K miles in 1 year and sold it privately for a much better price than market price and still lost $25,000. The Porsche Turbo is notorious for retaining value! Lambo is not a lot different in retained value when compared to the Turbo with the only exception possibly being the Ferrari, however the production numbers and import numbers are much less than the Audi R8 or the Porsche Turbo.

Market adjustment pricing for the R8 is pure speculation and is not being validated by the cars offered on eBay since virtually none have sold at adjusted pricing. A VERY FEW Dealers may be asking and getting over MSRP on R8 resales but most dealers are delivering cars to enthusiasts who have put down deposits and patiently waited for those cars to arrive, mine included. It is indeed unfortunate that you got caught up in such a dispicible sales tactic but it is simply not fair to label all Audi dealers nor are all Audi dealers failing to deliver as promised.

This same senario is going to play out with the forthcoming release of the Nissan GT-R. I talked to two dealers that I know personally and was told by both that they expect the first six months production will go off the showroom floor at $50K over MSRP, and they won't have to make them used or pre-owned to get the market adjustment.
The issue is a USA problem. In the USA the dealerships are allowed to sell cars for whatever they can. Hence the markup well above the MSRP. Here is Canada you are not allowed to do that. It is against the law. I recently called down to the USA and asked about putting me on a list for the Nissan GT-R. They said that they won't even make a list right now (2 weeks ago) because they figure that they'll be able to sell the car 50k over the MSRP. So, I'm sticking with the dealerships up here (though it will be more money EVEN if the USD and CDN dollars are even) because the price that is set is set and there's no bullsh!t markups. Basically, in the USA it's pure capitalism for you.

And by the way, I personally think that the Audi R8 and the Nissan GT-R (which I'm getting both) are better than the Porsche's for different reasons. Both are simply great cars but have their differences. The Audi R8 will meet or exceed the standards of the Carrera 4S. The styling of the R8 is better than anything road going right now including the Nissan GT-R. However, if you want a pure performance Porsche Turbo killer then buy the Nissan GT-R. This car will be the best performance of supercars (less the Beyron) AND simply the best value for the performance.
 

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I agree (but I can't afford both :( ) so I suspect 2 years down the road I sell the R8 and get the Nissan.

Or a Lexus I-FA
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
To the Gentlemen that I did not own a Turbo, here is the prove! :)
I have owned the car was driving 8K Mileages and sold it still for sticker after 10 Months! So please don't tell me not possible!
What I see what the local Lambo Dealers are asking for a Gallardo you should be able to get way more then just 130K ! However thats not the point here, I'm angry that AUDI USA do allow AUDI Dealer to have List and there is no Control over ! This is the Scandal, today I was just talking with fellows in Germany and the cars are available NOW!!! Not in one year or two ! No BS list , if you like to order a car you can! They take you order and they tell you exact when you will get your car! You are not in the Mercy of some AUDI dealer who try to make a quick buck and sell you off!
PS right now if not the Stock car you wait around 6-8 Months to get your car!
 

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I find it difficult to believe that they are available immediately, at list, in Germany.....

Perhaps you should consider importing one ??????

In UK, such is demand, that if you order one now, it will be early 2009 until you get it.

Used cars, 1-3 months old, are currently changing hands on average at GBP £10,000 = $21,000 above list price for new cars.

Introduction of the V10 has been delayed due to higher that expected demand for the V8.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Here are some nice pics of the Factory Car I was able to drive in Germany! And as everybody can clearly see it is in my house in Hamburg and there is no Salesman who bother you! I had the chance to drive that car for 3 hours and that was the reason why I want that car! It is great no question but I do not let any Dealership Black Mail me!

[/IMG]





http://www.r8talk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=220&stc=1&d=1196636956
 

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The facts are that there are only 200 R8's available in North America. In the USA there are about 180. The dealers in the USA are allowed to be capitalists and get whatever they can for the cars. This is nothing new. US dealerships have always been able to do this. The only difference here is that there is something different and quite sought after with this car. Hence they will mark it up as much as they will think they can sell it for as it is strictly profit at that point. If people don't like it then don't buy it. However, it seems that there's enough interest right now that people are willing to buy above list.

And as far as the V10 goes ... well ... I don't know about you but I sure as hell want one!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It seams like you agree on this practice! If I would treat my clients like Audi dose I would be out of Business but hey ...go out there if you are that stupid and pay over sticker....I will happily take one later on under STICKER!
 

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It seams like you agree on this practice! If I would treat my clients like Audi dose I would be out of Business but hey ...go out there if you are that stupid and pay over sticker....I will happily take one later on under STICKER!
Just because I understand the practice of dealerships in the USA doesn't mean I agree with it. It's just how it is and how it will continue to be unless there's a law against it like here in Canada. I don't agree with you about your complaint about the price though. Marked up or not. For the same price and specs the you (USA) pay for the 'standard' R8 you get a much better deal. The standard R8 in North America run 110k or 130k (R-tronic) but here in Canada we pay 130k or 150k (R-tronic) (and our currency is the same BTW) but yet the same specs in the UK runs around 90k (R-tronic) Pounds (which = 185k USD/CDN). If you're paying more than 185k USD then by all means you have something to complain about. But really, if anyone is going to complain ... well ... the USA SHOULD be the last ones in line.
 

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It seams like you agree on this practice! If I would treat my clients like Audi dose I would be out of Business but hey ...go out there if you are that stupid and pay over sticker....I will happily take one later on under STICKER!
The practice is just fine in the most capitalist country in the world with minimal regulation of this type of sale. I suspect this can also lead to LOWER prices on other items.

I doubt they are worrying much to be honest. You will be back if prices ever drop to what you want
 

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Badmoney2

Do you live in Germany or US?

I can drive my dealers car - I don't get bumped up the waiting list or pay less than list price for doing that
 

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korea is even more than the uk but most are taxes
 
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