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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all. 1st rain of the fall. Taking 2 corners at no more than 20-25mph. Car lost traction twice and literally fishtailed. Tires are fresh 7/32” tread on all 4. Little concerned as this car should not lose traction. Light/moderate rain. Nothing crazy. When I lost traction the ESC light intermittently flashed on the dashboard. I am wondering if I should be taking this car to a shop to be checked, as I am unsure how an R8 loses traction in light/moderate rain at relatively normal speeds around a turning corner. Please help! Of note, why am I getting 10mpg fuel? Is something off and what would you all do? I am just concerned to have fishtailed around the corner 2x at low speed
 

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A few questions:

- What kind of tires are on the car (brand and type)?

- How old are the tires?

- How long had you been driving before the incident?

I've only experienced the R8 losing traction a handful of times - all unintentional. In those cases, the temps were low (fall time) and the tires weren't very well warmed up yet. The speed isn't as important as the throttle input. Pulling away from a stop while going into a turn, a bit heavy on the gas (nothing crazy) will do it if the tires are cold and the temps are a bit low... no less adding some wet roads into the mix.

Regarding the tires, the PZeros are a bit more prone to this - need to be properly warmed up. Likewise, they can also get harder with age and therefore less grippy. But that will pretty much go for any summer performance tire.

But if the tires are newer and they were warmed up, there may be something else going on... those would be the obvious issues from my perspective.
 

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Clue: 10mpg, wet roads ... divers boot :cool:

On a serious note check the tyre pressures, may have dropped if the temperature is now lower.
 

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sounds like slippery road to me, instead of the tires/car. Unless you have average performance summer tires then maybe that could be why. 1st fresh rain on roads will be washing off all the oil/gunk baked on there during the summer, it can get very very slippery, esp in low temp when the tires are cold

as for 10 mpg, did you reset it before? my car is tuned v10 and even then i have 12-13 mpg on average. You must be having too much fun lol
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Not that I’m aware of. Running Pzero’s which EZ’s reply is interesting for sure. Has been running the car for about 10 minutes and think it was warm. Tires are 7/32” all around so in decent shape, but certainly hasn’t me thinking twice about putting my foot on the pedal later that day. It was a little scary, but suppose it taught me “respect” for the car, just wouldn’t think the V8 Quattro would slip that easily!

Any diesel fuel spilled there?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks Ez, just got time to respond had to put the kiddos down and was working and forgot to respond. Yep, Pzero’s all new as of 3 months ago and 7/32” on all.

As always, your advice is sound and spot on. I put answers below and hoping you can help! It was quite the moment and def had me scared to put the foot down even after the rain had dried! Not the way one should be scared when riding in the R8 and Quattro system! Pretty frustrating and also wanting to make sure nothing is wrong beyond the 1st rain of the season! I answered your questions below and hoping you can help wrack your brain! Maybe the tires weren’t warm, I had been driving for ~10 minutes or so. Hope nothing more is wrong never fun to see the ESC light intermittently flash on the dash while the car fishtails!

A few questions

- What kind of tires are on the car (brand and type)? Pzero’s 235/19 F 305/19 R. 7/32” tread remain all around

- How old are the tires? All replaced in last 3 months still pretty new!

- How long had you been driving before the incident? Maybe 10 minutes or so

I've only experienced the R8 losing traction a handful of times - all unintentional. In those cases, the temps were low (fall time) and the tires weren't very well warmed up yet. The speed isn't as important as the throttle input. Pulling away from a stop while going into a turn, a bit heavy on the gas (nothing crazy) will do it if the tires are cold and the temps are a bit low... no less adding some wet roads into the mix.

Regarding the tires, the PZeros are a bit more prone to this - need to be properly warmed up. Likewise, they can also get harder with age and therefore less grippy. But that will pretty much go for any summer performance tire.

But if the tires are newer and they were warmed up, there may be something else going on... those would be the obvious issues from my perspective.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Lol thanks and yep, maybe so. Pzero’s all replaced in prior 3 months 7/32.”

39/36 PSI on pressures. What do you think? Car was running for ~10 minutes and quite the scary moment wouldn’t expect at such low speeds in a Quattro system despite 1st rain of the season. I live in CA so when I say cold it was 64* this morning so not really too cold?!

Clue: 10mpg, wet roads ... divers boot <img src="http://www.r8talk.com/forums/images/smilies/cool.png" border="0" alt="" title="Cool" class="inlineimg" />

On a serious note check the tyre pressures, may have dropped if the temperature is now lower.
 

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No disrespect intended, but quattro does not overcome the laws of physics - even with traction control. The fact that your traction light was blinking tells you that the laws of physics were being approached - and the system was 'trying' to correct for it - no matter how it got there - and more importantly, it STILL doesn't mean it can get control. You've mentioned quattro, low speed, despite rain - repeatedly, as if you may think quattro is invincible - it's good, but it's not magic. Just remember this - if with quattro, all you ended up with is a little fishtailing, imagine that without quattro, you'd probably have wrecked and caused yourself some real damage instead of a scare.

Sometimes whatever caused it may be just too far gone to recover. Based on your description, it sounds like a combination of things, but perhaps most concerning is the road surface itself - if not obviously oil or something else slippery, a few leaves (wet) for example - may be the most logical culprit.
 

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I would say something is definitely wrong. I have driven at the track at 90mph before I added the front canards without any issues. After the front canards I have driven at 113mph without any issues in the rain on the track. I was driving with Michelin PSS with tire pressure set at 34 psi hot all around. There are videos of this on YouTube Grrr8r8.
 

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And you're upset with a tail-happy rwd car? It's insanely fun!

Ditch the p-zeros' ****ty OEM tire. Get some P4S's, and enjoy.

By the way, our car is massively RWD biased, with ~95% of the power going through the rear wheels when you goose it, and a maximum of I think 30% to the front in various scenarios. It's tail happy, it's fun!
 

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Another thought - how many miles are on the new PZeros? You mentioned replacing them 3 months ago. New tires, just like old, can be a bit more slippery.

Despite the Michelin PSS and now PS4 being better tires, the level of grip on the PZeros should be more than sufficient. I've had them on my car since new (now on the second set), and they've only given out a few times - each time, as mentioned prior, was in cold temps and the tires weren't properly warmed up. Once warm, even in lower temps (I'm talking even down into the 40's), they're plenty grippy. So, at 60+ degrees, the issue was more likely something to do with the tire not being fully warm, the road surface, or maybe even the the tire's newness (if it doesn't have sufficient mileage on it yet).

Now, if you were driving for around 10 minutes already, I'd expect the tire to be warm. Mine feel pretty good after only a few minutes but certainly feel sticky after 10. Which would bring me back to the road surface. It was raining - and perhaps it was just the right conditions combined with some slightly aggressive throttle input?

Again, curious how much mileage is on the tires now, too.

You can always take the car to an open lot and push it a bit - not advocating doing donuts but the safety of an open space can give you some room to experiment. I suppose it's possible to also have a defect with the tires. I don't really drive the R8 in the rain, but I've gotten caught in the rain at least a few times, and the car always felt rock solid.

As others have pointed out, it's largely rear biased - 85% under normal conditions, with 15% to the front. The system can only send a maximum of 30% to the front. A good system to give you some extra grip around a track, but not like the AWD systems designed for inclement weather. This one's definitely optimized for performance.

Let us know what you learn!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks EZ. Again spot on advice! The tires have about ~1k miles on them. Relatively new. Could have been oily roads, but just a bit frustrating to feel a slight loss of confidence. As others have said the AWD is 85% rear, 15% front designed for performance not a standard AWD. It was the 1st rain of the season about 65* temp and possibly I need to give her a break?! Drove today in dry conditions and didn’t necessarily feel the similar slippage, but agree possibly an open space/p lot may be good to experiment since I don’t want to just react and take her to the stealership for $180/hr investigation, but simply want my confidence restored. I wanted to replace the PZERO with Michelin PS4 so these will be on the new batch when the Pzero’s 7/32” burn out.

Another thought - how many miles are on the new PZeros? You mentioned replacing them 3 months ago. New tires, just like old, can be a bit more slippery.

Despite the Michelin PSS and now PS4 being better tires, the level of grip on the PZeros should be more than sufficient. I've had them on my car since new (now on the second set), and they've only given out a few times - each time, as mentioned prior, was in cold temps and the tires weren't properly warmed up. Once warm, even in lower temps (I'm talking even down into the 40's), they're plenty grippy. So, at 60+ degrees, the issue was more likely something to do with the tire not being fully warm, the road surface, or maybe even the the tire's newness (if it doesn't have sufficient mileage on it yet).

Now, if you were driving for around 10 minutes already, I'd expect the tire to be warm. Mine feel pretty good after only a few minutes but certainly feel sticky after 10. Which would bring me back to the road surface. It was raining - and perhaps it was just the right conditions combined with some slightly aggressive throttle input?

Again, curious how much mileage is on the tires now, too.

You can always take the car to an open lot and push it a bit - not advocating doing donuts but the safety of an open space can give you some room to experiment. I suppose it's possible to also have a defect with the tires. I don't really drive the R8 in the rain, but I've gotten caught in the rain at least a few times, and the car always felt rock solid.

As others have pointed out, it's largely rear biased - 85% under normal conditions, with 15% to the front. The system can only send a maximum of 30% to the front. A good system to give you some extra grip around a track, but not like the AWD systems designed for inclement weather. This one's definitely optimized for performance.

Let us know what you learn!
 

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All the factors at play point to this being perfectly normal. First rain, always very slippery. P Zero tyres, known for levels of grip that are less than PS 4S. 10 minutes driving on P Zero tyres, in relatively low ambient temp on a wet road that acts as a cooling agent, will definitely not be up to temp for these tyres. Rear-biased Quattro. ESP light that shows all is working fine - no flickering light would be a concern by contrast. So, in my experience of exactly these factors, your little scare is exactly what I would expect. And by far the best thing I ever did to reduce the chances of this was to get PS 4 S tyres, light and day better than the P Zero.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks NZ! Last couple days have been dry and certainly if slippage continued would def be concerned. Yea, PZERO not my choice prior owner has put them on and still in good shape
So couldn’t bring myself to scrap them, despite not my 1st choice. PS4S will be next tho!

All the factors at play point to this being perfectly normal. First rain, always very slippery. P Zero tyres, known for levels of grip that are less than PS 4S. 10 minutes driving on P Zero tyres, in relatively low ambient temp on a wet road that acts as a cooling agent, will definitely not be up to temp for these tyres. Rear-biased Quattro. ESP light that shows all is working fine - no flickering light would be a concern by contrast. So, in my experience of exactly these factors, your little scare is exactly what I would expect. And by far the best thing I ever did to reduce the chances of this was to get PS 4 S tyres, light and day better than the P Zero.
 

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you'll get over the loss of confidence. I spun out coming out of an underpass when the roads were wet like a week after I got the car. Just out of curiosity what size are the rears?

Thanks EZ. Again spot on advice! The tires have about ~1k miles on them. Relatively new. Could have been oily roads, but just a bit frustrating to feel a slight loss of confidence. As others have said the AWD is 85% rear, 15% front designed for performance not a standard AWD. It was the 1st rain of the season about 65* temp and possibly I need to give her a break?! Drove today in dry conditions and didn’t necessarily feel the similar slippage, but agree possibly an open space/p lot may be good to experiment since I don’t want to just react and take her to the stealership for $180/hr investigation, but simply want my confidence restored. I wanted to replace the PZERO with Michelin PS4 so these will be on the new batch when the Pzero’s 7/32” burn out.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Funny. Yea I’m sure I will! The rears are 305/19


you'll get over the loss of confidence. I spun out coming out of an underpass when the roads were wet like a week after I got the car. Just out of curiosity what size are the rears?

Thanks EZ. Again spot on advice! The tires have about ~1k miles on them. Relatively new. Could have been oily roads, but just a bit frustrating to feel a slight loss of confidence. As others have said the AWD is 85% rear, 15% front designed for performance not a standard AWD. It was the 1st rain of the season about 65* temp and possibly I need to give her a break?! Drove today in dry conditions and didn’t necessarily feel the similar slippage, but agree possibly an open space/p lot may be good to experiment since I don’t want to just react and take her to the stealership for $180/hr investigation, but simply want my confidence restored. I wanted to replace the PZERO with Michelin PS4 so these will be on the new batch when the Pzero’s 7/32” burn out.
 
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