[RaysterV10]

Here we go. So I received the 4 new shocks by UPS last week and got on to install them over the weekend.

First thing's first, although I am aware that the shocks are corner specific i.e. having designated part numbers (420 412 019 Front Left / 420 412 020 Front Right / 420 512 019 Rear Right / 420 512 020 Rear Left), the China version came numbered as 2 units of 420 412 019 and 2 units of 420 512 019.

I queried the seller and he told me to ignore the part numbers and proceed with the install. Apparently the China versions of the shocks are front/rear axle specific only and can be swapped left and right.

Since there are various write-ups on the forum on installation of the shocks, I will skip to the bare essentials. Not much drama during the process apart from having to remove the rear airbox guides which hinder removal of the rear top shock bolt (I reinstalled the bolt the same way it came out as it wasn't difficult to remove that air guide) and having to remove front fender liners, top plastic covers and the windshield wipers and cowl.

Here comes the key bits. Both the new rear shocks were similar in length to the naked eye but have had alterations to the shape of the top mounts which I can only presume that were made so that the shocks would fit on either side of the car. I did not take apart the shock to measure the tube/rod length like Itemup4650 did but doing a quick side by side comparison, it is evident that the shock body of the China version extends further up into the rubber boot which indicates a shorter rod (and travel).

Similarly to Itemup4560's unboxing experience, my new shocks also came with instructions to plug in the magride electrical lead to the car and turning on the ignition to check for faults prior to bolting up and I did that on all 4 corners.

Over at the front, the job was slightly more involved having to remove fender liners as well as all the top plastic cover bits and windshield wipers to gain good access and leverage for the top mount bolt. I noticed some members getting away with just getting at the top bolt from the wheel well area but I could not see how that provided enough leverage to use a torque wrench for the required 110Nm tightening.

Here's where things got curious. With a side-by-side comparison, the front China shock has a shorter body length (and longer rod) compared to my stock shocks although the overall top to bottom length is similar to the eye.

I proceeded with bolting everything up to spec with each corner preloaded with the car's weight (used a jack with a rubber puck to slowly push up the lower ball joint until I saw the body lift ever so slightly from the jack stands) and I would say all 4 shocks were installed with relative ease.

It was already midnight when I buttoned everything up (I started the project at 2p.m.) but I took it out for a spin regardless. I understand that shocks need some running-in especially when kept horizontally for a period of time but my immediate observations were that the springs were slightly softer that my stocks in normal non-sport mode and the ride was too soft for my liking although normal mode has become way more comfortable now.

With sport suspension settings on, I felt the ride stiffen up but the change was not as immediate as the stock shocks which stiffened up in 2 seconds. This felt like it needed a good 5-6 seconds before a difference could be felt. However in sport mode, I would say that the damping was not as aggressive as the original. My guess would be that it was somewhere between 60%-70% of original stiffness in sport. I will report further as the shocks are run-in over the next few weeks.

Sadly after having the shocks replaced I am now getting a clunk from the front right side of the car which can be heard and also felt in the steering column. I'm not discounting the fact that other old suspension components may have given up the ghost due to the stretching involved during installation to line up the shock bolts but I am also suspicious that it may be a faulty shock top mount at play. The noise seems to amplify in sport mode as the ride stiffens but in normal mode it can also be heard when going over uneven roads and crests.

Here's a short video of the noise when driving over a reasonably flat road in sport mode:

Since I'm busy with work this week, it would be a good few days before I can get the car up on jack stands again to check the components. But a hunch is telling me that the noise could be sway bar bushings/links and I have 2 new front sway bar bushings on order and I should get them by tomorrow. I have also preempted the seller of the shocks that 1 may potentially be faulty and that he has to ship me a new replacement should the noise not be resolved. More updates to follow.

 

[stug360]

Thanks for the update. All good info. A pound to a penny it's the shocks that are the culprit. Sounds like these Chinese versions are just not fit for purpose.

 

[Trev450]

You pays your price......................

 

[reflexgti]

I've been following the thread with interest to see how these China aftermarket shocks perform. I just happened to stumble on a new ebay listing for what appears to me a new company that looks like they use OE components to build their parts. I wonder if they're any better?
4x For Audi R8 V8 Front and Rear Suspension Shock Absorbers Struts Magnetic Ride | eBay

 

[Scott-AhlmanPerformance]

I have been watching this thread. Some things to consider:

• Suspension is Safety Critical
  • if any aspect of the suspension system fails at any speed above a parking lot speed then it has a high potential to result in a very bad day. If you are at highway legal speeds or way above ...like many do without any drama (the R8 is fast with ease) then the chance of a suspension failure leading to an unrecoverable crash is nearly certain.
    • These are not the parts/system to cut cost on
• Way Beyond What you Can See
  • You guys are noting some big visual differences, packaging, shock travel, spring rates, damping behavior and now potential noise
    • However, how this system works together for steering, handling and ride is a big part of the safety even without a part "failure"
      • Do you have confidence this is remotely at the Audi OEM level with this very low cost mag ride option?
    • Material specifications - design and quality - There are some notable structural differences just visually in the spring seats alone affecting the strength, which says nothing about the material specifications and quality control for these parts.
  • Development and Testing - This is the major area that is likely lacking and saves a boatload of money - significant part and full vehicle development and testing for safety and complex vehicle dynamics.

Therefore, from a risk benefit analysis standpoint, for anyone that likes the Mag Rides, but want lower cost, then go with @Nagengast rebuilt options for your nearly 200 mph Supercar.

 

[bavarianstance]

I've been following the thread with interest to see how these China aftermarket shocks perform. I just happened to stumble on a new ebay listing for what appears to me a new company that looks like they use OE components to build their parts. I wonder if they're any better?
4x For Audi R8 V8 Front and Rear Suspension Shock Absorbers Struts Magnetic Ride | eBay

nice find! This seems like a really good deal if legit. But might be too good to be true...

 

[Trev450]

I seem to recall some one making a similar comment about the previous Chinese ones.

I fail to grasp why anyone would want to fit anything that is detremental to the ride quality and/or handling characteristics of such an accomplished car. As Scott says, if you wish to stick with magrides then Nagengast is the obvious choice.

 

[reflexgti]

nice find! This seems like a really good deal if legit. But might be too good to be true...

I agree about not using unknown aftermarket shocks but there definitely is a middle ground that should exist beyond $10k factory shocks. What's of interest is this company's claim of using OEM components and the picture does show what appears to be OEM Delphi shock housings, spring seats, and springs.

 

[Scott-AhlmanPerformance]

I agree about not using unknown aftermarket shocks but there definitely is a middle ground that should exist beyond $10k factory shocks. What's of interest is this company's claim of using OEM components and the picture does show what appears to be OEM Delphi shock housings, spring seats, and springs.

It would seem middle ground (for price) is ~$5000/set for "magrides", at best. Audi dealerships sell the OE for $12,000/set, but yes some OE parts dealers sell them for closer to $10K. There are multiple reputable brands in this $5000 to $6000 region including our Öhlins TTX's here:

R8Talk Discount - Öhlins TTX Coilovers - Ahlman...

We sold 8 sets of our Öhlins TTX Coilovers - Ahlman Performance Stage II - for Gen 1 Audi R8 in less than a month last November so we ordered another 8 sets immediately. These sets finally arrive in early May 2021 and all 8 sets are sold. And now 4 of 9 new sets from 6/23/21 remain as of...

www.r8talk.com

in which we could, along with (32) R8 customers in the past 12 months, discuss the advantages versus OEM and aftermarket options. And yes the disadvantage of any passive, but adjustable coilovers being inability to adjust the damping electronically. (and we could also discuss pros and cons of this feature)

Regardless, the continuously variable damping of the OE magrides is a complex system that has significant engineering and part cost associated. It is unfortunate the OE units have a high shaft seal failure mode. As noted by a few of us the Nagengast refurbish options is your best bet for Mag Rides in the mid price range - far less expensive than OEM.

Do you see $1600/set as middle ground? Do visual differences in the overall coilover and price make you question if their claims of some of their parts being OEM being legitimate? Any concerns about what you can't see or the engineering, development and testing for this safety critical suspension?

My points up in post #25 still apply...the suspension system and any of its parts are safety critical. (and this says nothing about the impact the suspension has on one's driving experience of the R8)

 

[reflexgti]

Aftermarket suspension systems aside, the price point of the OE magrides is quite high when compared to other Delphi/BWI produced dampers for other vehicle makes and my opinion is that the $10k-$12k price point does not necessarily translate to cost/complexity of manufacturing or to recoup development costs. There are plenty of OEM dampers for different cars of similar performance and production numbers that sell for much less than the R8 AMR dampers.

The visual differences to the specific damper/springs that I linked (not the ones being installed in the discussion thread) are minimal. They appear to use a Delphi shock body, and OEM Audi cast spring seats. Connector plugs appear to be OEM and springs appear to have the correct color dot codes. The dust boots are definitely not OEM but what, besides the price point, would suggest that they are not using OEM components? I'm certainly not endorsing these replacements but hard to criticize the construction of these shocks based on just price point.

 

[RaysterV10]

I've been following the thread with interest to see how these China aftermarket shocks perform. I just happened to stumble on a new ebay listing for what appears to me a new company that looks like they use OE components to build their parts. I wonder if they're any better?
4x For Audi R8 V8 Front and Rear Suspension Shock Absorbers Struts Magnetic Ride | eBay

I found these on AliExpress as well and I chatted up the seller. Apparently they will be shipped to you with the Delphi stickers and top mounts with Audi logo embossing. Not sure if these are truly legit as my original shocks said "Made In Poland" and they were BWI which stands for Beijing West Industries.

I think quality and variances vary between all the non-OE shocks sold on eBay as there are literally hundreds of different factories competing each other in manufacturing these.

 

[reflexgti]

I found these on AliExpress as well and I chatted up the seller. Apparently they will be shipped to you with the Delphi stickers and top mounts with Audi logo embossing. Not sure if these are truly legit as my original shocks said "Made In Poland" and they were BWI which stands for Beijing West Industries.

I think quality and variances vary between all the non-OE shocks sold on eBay as there are literally hundreds of different factories competing each other in manufacturing these.

That's interesting info. The cast Delphi spring seats are typically made in France so that part is either OEM or they made the effort to fake it.

 

[RaysterV10]

I have been watching this thread. Some things to consider:

• Suspension is Safety Critical
  • if any aspect of the suspension system fails at any speed above a parking lot speed then it has a high potential to result in a very bad day. If you are at highway legal speeds or way above ...like many do without any drama (the R8 is fast with ease) then the chance of a suspension failure leading to an unrecoverable crash is nearly certain.
    • These are not the parts/system to cut cost on
• Way Beyond What you Can See
  • You guys are noting some big visual differences, packaging, shock travel, spring rates, damping behavior and now potential noise
    • However, how this system works together for steering, handling and ride is a big part of the safety even without a part "failure"
      • Do you have confidence this is remotely at the Audi OEM level with this very low cost mag ride option?
    • Material specifications - design and quality - There are some notable structural differences just visually in the spring seats alone affecting the strength, which says nothing about the material specifications and quality control for these parts.
  • Development and Testing - This is the major area that is likely lacking and saves a boatload of money - significant part and full vehicle development and testing for safety and complex vehicle dynamics.

Therefore, from a risk benefit analysis standpoint, for anyone that likes the Mag Rides, but want lower cost, then go with @Nagengast rebuilt options for your nearly 200 mph Supercar.

I definitely agree that the suspension is a critical component linking us to the road similarly to choice of tyres. I have been curious as to how these shocks would perform due to the price point and the fact that they were able to squeeze magnetic ride functionality into the package with brand new springs.

I saw no harm in giving it a try as the cost to me was solely the purchase of the 4 shocks which came to about USD1200 with free UPS shipping to where I am. I do my own work on my car and with my original albeit slightly leaky shocks in storage, I could get them back on the car within half a day.

To me this project was to try those shocks on my own to decide for myself if this was a viable replacement option, again given the low price point compared to OE magrides. There are some of us including myself who are not keen with aftermarket coilover solutions due to losing on-the-fly variable damping control.

For the price I paid I could have easily obtained a set of decent BC Racing coilovers and at least have had a reputable manufacturer's shocks on my car but that's not the point. The point is that I am satisfying my own curiosity over trying these very reasonable replacement options, which if workable would be a great alternative for those with failing shocks.

Are they made with cheaper materials compared to OE? Sure! They even use household cable clips to hold the magride wires. Is the shock body made of cheaper metal? More than likely. But would it explode and shoot out of the wheel well on a freeway? That would be a long shot. They are built just like any shock and to me, they would fail like the original shocks i.e. leak just the same, if not sooner. In my opinion, likely failure modes on these would be gradual loss of damping with varying severity.

Having said all that, I am still keeping my set of 4 original shocks to be refurbished at a later date should I not be able to resolve the noise in the suspension.

 

[Scott-AhlmanPerformance]

Aftermarket suspension systems aside, the price point of the OE magrides is quite high when compared to other Delphi/BWI produced dampers for other vehicle makes and my opinion is that the $10k-$12k price point does not necessarily translate to cost/complexity of manufacturing or to recoup development costs. There are plenty of OEM dampers for different cars of similar performance and production numbers that sell for much less than the R8 AMR dampers.

The visual differences to the specific damper/springs that I linked (not the ones being installed in the discussion thread) are minimal. They appear to use a Delphi shock body, and OEM Audi cast spring seats. Connector plugs appear to be OEM and springs appear to have the correct color dot codes. The dust boots are definitely not OEM but what, besides the price point, would suggest that they are not using OEM components? I'm certainly not endorsing these replacements but hard to criticize the construction of these shocks based on just price point.

What is the OE price point and the OE's and makes for the other vehicles in a similar volume of only about 3000 vehicles per year worldwide on average (~ R8 production). Porsche 911 non-strut PASM?

I went well beyond price for my points worth raising concern in post #25 including "way beyond what you can see". Which is a minimal list of the total. Further an unknown outfit selling (that doesn't even list their name - perhaps its there in fine print somewhere, but I couldn't find it) on eBay and people putting pieces together with zero evidence of engineering a system.

I could write a book in great detail far beyond what I wrote to bring awareness to significant differences between these and OE, but as it is, my chassis engineering points in two posts above were somehow boiled down to a focus on price point. I have been intimately involved in the recall of chassis parts from cast aluminum, for example, due to manufacturing issues that made it through a very rigorous process ahead of production. Manufacturing issues that hurt the structural integrity of the part to allow failure prior to customer delivery with no miles past parking lot speed, yet couldn't be predicted by normal inspection methods of X-ray. Had these parts been driven with any real world loading...

You have confidence in these units because of external appearance and someone printed up labels that look like OE? You believe Audi knows and allows their use of branding on these?

As a sanity check - the Nagengast refurbished/reconditioned OE units are over double the cost of these eBay sold as new units for primarily labor alone in Poland, which is about 75% of the US labor cost (or less). But yes, in the end, this drastically lower price point tells me plenty because of knowing the automotive, specifically chassis, product development process in significant detail to know an awful lot of steps to insure safe, consistent, OE level behavior are being skipped:

• Design for Failure Modes and Effects Analysis (DFMEA)
  • How things can fail and effects of failure
• Design Verification (DV) Analysis and Testing
• Process Failure Modes and Effects Analysis (PFMEA)
  • Manufacturing processes
• Process Verification (PV) Analysis and Testing

in each case these are done for the components, subsystems and the full vehicle. This is an incredible amount of engineering that takes an awful lot of people and money.

I am guessing this won't sway your path, but I am hoping some consider this input and I welcome questions for more specifics on any of it.

 

[Scott-AhlmanPerformance]

I found these on AliExpress as well and I chatted up the seller. Apparently they will be shipped to you with the Delphi stickers and top mounts with Audi logo embossing. Not sure if these are truly legit as my original shocks said "Made In Poland" and they were BWI which stands for Beijing West Industries.

I think quality and variances vary between all the non-OE shocks sold on eBay as there are literally hundreds of different factories competing each other in manufacturing these.

OK, I have given plenty of input for you guys to consider including a basic sanity check on pricing of refurbished OE mag rides.

What gives you confidence to choose one of these hundreds over another and an extremely low price point? The sticker that looks like OE from a company that doesn't list their company clearly? Unfortunately Audi's ability to get people in China and the region to cease and desist use of their branding is nearly impossible...if they are aware of them.

I understand the desire to find a good bargain. The suspension is just a really rough place to find it for safety and the R8 experience.

 

[Scott-AhlmanPerformance]

I definitely agree that the suspension is a critical component linking us to the road similarly to choice of tyres. I have been curious as to how these shocks would perform due to the price point and the fact that they were able to squeeze magnetic ride functionality into the package with brand new springs.

I saw no harm in giving it a try as the cost to me was solely the purchase of the 4 shocks which came to about USD1200 with free UPS shipping to where I am. I do my own work on my car and with my original albeit slightly leaky shocks in storage, I could get them back on the car within half a day.

To me this project was to try those shocks on my own to decide for myself if this was a viable replacement option, again given the low price point compared to OE magrides. There are some of us including myself who are not keen with aftermarket coilover solutions due to losing on-the-fly variable damping control.

For the price I paid I could have easily obtained a set of decent BC Racing coilovers and at least have had a reputable manufacturer's shocks on my car but that's not the point. The point is that I am satisfying my own curiosity over trying these very reasonable replacement options, which if workable would be a great alternative for those with failing shocks.

Are they made with cheaper materials compared to OE? Sure! They even use household cable clips to hold the magride wires. Is the shock body made of cheaper metal? More than likely. But would it explode and shoot out of the wheel well on a freeway? That would be a long shot. They are built just like any shock and to me, they would fail like the original shocks i.e. leak just the same, if not sooner. In my opinion, likely failure modes on these would be gradual loss of damping with varying severity.

Having said all that, I am still keeping my set of 4 original shocks to be refurbished at a later date should I not be able to resolve the noise in the suspension.

Yes tires are the most important part on the car...IMHO. Any of the suspension and chassis system is next.

I can give you feedback on each line, but that doesn't seem worthwhile for you or me.

Please look at my post #34 and the cast aluminum issue. This is real. This is not judgment or conjecture. This happened within an extremely rigorous process. Safety recalls happen within very rigorous processes by all of the big auto and Tier 1 supplier manufacturers. If you acknowledge cheaper materials then also the entire process is not remotely OE level. I have noted many items that says these are note at OE level. Structural failure of these on the freeway, a pothole, etc is not remotely a long shot. I am not sure what causes you to make this assessment.

Yes leaking shaft seals are a much less critical failure mode.

 

[reflexgti]

What is the OE price point and the OE's and makes for the other vehicles in a similar volume of only about 3000 vehicles per year worldwide on average (~ R8 production). Porsche 911 non-strut PASM?

I went well beyond price for my points worth raising concern in post #25 including "way beyond what you can see". Which is a minimal list of the total. Further an unknown outfit selling (that doesn't even list their name - perhaps its there in fine print somewhere, but I couldn't find it) on eBay and people putting pieces together with zero evidence of engineering a system.

I could write a book in great detail far beyond what I wrote to bring awareness to significant differences between these and OE, but as it is, my chassis engineering points in two posts above were somehow boiled down to a focus on price point. I have been intimately involved in the recall of chassis parts from cast aluminum, for example, due to manufacturing issues that made it through a very rigorous process ahead of production. Manufacturing issues that hurt the structural integrity of the part to allow failure prior to customer delivery with no miles past parking lot speed, yet couldn't be predicted by normal inspection methods of X-ray. Had these parts been driven with any real world loading...

You have confidence in these units because of external appearance and someone printed up labels that look like OE? You believe Audi knows and allows their use of branding on these?

As a sanity check - the Nagengast refurbished/reconditioned OE units are over double the cost of these eBay sold as new units for primarily labor alone in Poland, which is about 75% of the US labor cost (or less). But yes, in the end, this drastically lower price point tells me plenty because of knowing the automotive, specifically chassis, product development process in significant detail to know an awful lot of steps to insure safe, consistent, OE level behavior are being skipped:

• Design for Failure Modes and Effects Analysis (DFMEA)
  • How things can fail and effects of failure
• Design Verification (DV) Analysis and Testing
• Process Failure Modes and Effects Analysis (PFMEA)
  • Manufacturing processes
• Process Verification (PV) Analysis and Testing

in each case these are done for the components, subsystems and the full vehicle. This is an incredible amount of engineering that takes an awful lot of people and money.

I am guessing this won't sway your path, but I am hoping some consider this input and I welcome questions for more specifics on any of it.

I was considering the price point for the GT350/GT350R with a total global production run of around 23k vehicles. Those cars use the same BWI based magnetorheological damper technology and factory replacements are well below the $10k-$12k Audi price point. Just a quick search online shows a rear new genuine magneride damper at $349. Are you suggesting that it is not possible to manufacture and sell new OEM quality replacements for a R8 for less than $10k?

I want to be clear that I'm not saying these are OEM nor am I suggesting confidence in these components. The ad states that they are using some OEM components, and visually, it looks like the spring seats are OEM castings. Looking at eBay photos is not enough to determine the quality of the components as you've stated and I merely suggest that it might be worth further examination.

 

[Scott-AhlmanPerformance]

I was considering the price point for the GT350/GT350R with a total global production run of around 23k vehicles. Those cars use the same BWI based magnetorheological damper technology and factory replacements are well below the $10k-$12k Audi price point. Just a quick search online shows a rear new genuine magnaride damper at $349. Are you suggesting that it is not possible to manufacture and sell new OEM quality replacements for a R8 for less than $10k?

I want to be clear that I'm not saying these are OEM nor am I suggesting confidence in these components. The ad states that they are using some OEM components, and visually, it looks like the spring seats are OEM castings. Looking at eBay photos is not enough to determine the quality of the components as you've stated and I merely suggest that it might be worth further examination.

Ok in 2018 Ford gave magnaride as an option on most Mustangs and standard on others. A heavily taken option. So the volume is considerably higher than what you note, but I cannot find specific numbers. And I am referring to considerable fixed cost (engineering) where volume has a huge impact on price. (You show pricing without springs). So if the volume is double, as an example, then the fixed cost per damper and coilover is half. This is significant. In addition, Ford may have a much wider use licensing agreement (magride technology) or internal development (many vehicles) that would cut costs considerably versus Audi and the R8 (Delphi pricing). I do not know if this is the case, but it is a good bet based on what I know.

I did not say nor imply less than $10k for the mag rides for the R8 is not possible. I pointed out many reasons for concern with the ~$1700 mag ride coilover options noted for the R8. There is an ocean of pricing in between, but the level of investigation/examination to determine if these are truly worth the risk is extremely difficult from a pure engineering standpoint. I am working point to out legitimate reasons for concern and this is not the area worth "investigation" for a few thousand dollars from a safety perspective alone yet alone ride, handling and steering behavior and engagement/visceral experience/confidence in such a great car.

Myself along with others here pointed out a good option for ~$4000 if you want stock magride coilovers...far below $10k. In the end, it does not appear I am adding value to this thread nor influencing decision making in this low cost direction. I don't want to waste anyone's time. Especially mine.

I will work with upcoming videos to show some of the paces these cars and subsystems are put through (by OE's and a few of us from there) to give a better feel for what I am saying that is likely too abstract and/or feels exaggerated without experiencing it in person.

 

[bavarianstance]

At the price point of remanufactured units from Poland, you might as well spend a few extra bucks and get KWs/Ohlins/Bilsteins which will ride and handle better and likely never fail again. That's why it doesn't really make financial sense to consider replacing with brand new OEM units and so many folks are interested in these Chinese replacements.

 

[Scott-AhlmanPerformance]

At the price point of remanufactured units from Poland, you might as well spend a few extra bucks and get KWs/Ohlins/Bilsteins which will ride and handle better and likely never fail again. That's why it doesn't really make financial sense to consider replacing with brand new OEM units and so many folks are interested in these Chinese replacements.

This point makes sense regarding the options you note for a little more money. However, this thread and those wanting these Chinese replacements are clearly noting they want the mag ride feature.