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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
OK ... I'm not sure if this is a good idea ... but as long as people stick to the guidelines ... we could end up with a reasonable list of cars that ... could be considered the R8's main competition. To keep things realistic ... I've come up with guidelines that a car must fit within ... to be considered as ... R8 competition.

Guidelines
Two seater ... mandatory requirement,
364-464bhp ... which is within approx 12% ... of the R8,
233-297bhp per ton ... which is within approx 12% ... of the R8.​
In a similar fashion to Elliot's waiting list thread ... I will maintain a list of cars put forward at the bottom of this post ... however, any car put forward as a competitor to the R8 must be a two seater ... no 4 seater will be considered ... and any car put forward must meet at least one of the two power ratings above.

If you want to put forward a car you feel will be a direct competitor to the R8 ... put it forward along with your reasons for the nomination ... if I think it is an obvious competitor and should be included I'll, add it to the list ... or if I'm uncertain I'll ask for other users to vote (with a realistic time frame for votes) on whether they feel it is a likely competitor for the R8.

So ... nominations please ... I'll start the ball rolling ... additional point>>> cost should not be an issue!

Key info>>> Baseline = Audi R8 ... 2 seater, 414bhp, 265bhp/ton <<<added 25/11/06.

The Competition
1. Ferrari 360 ... 0-62mph 4.0secs ... 2 seater, 394bhp (-4.8%), 291bhp/ton (+9.8%).
2. Porsche 911 GT3 RS ... 0-62mph 4.2 secs ... 2 seater, 415bhp (+0.24%), 286bhp/ton (+7.9%).
3. Porsche 911 GT3 ... 0-62mph 4.3 secs ... 2 seater, 415bhp (+0.24%), 282bhp/ton (+6.4%).
4. Mercedes SL 55 AMG ... 0-62mph 4.5secs ... 2 seater, 517bhp (+25%), 263bhp/ton (-0.75%) ... 2 out of 3.
5. Aston Martin V8 Vantage ... 0-62mph 5.0secs ... 2 seater, 380bhp (-8.2%), 242bhp/ton (-8.6%).
6. Mercedes SLK 55 AMG Roadster ... 0-62mph 4.9secs ... 2 seater, 360bhp (-13%), 233bhp/ton (-12%) ... 2 out of 3.
7. Mercedes SL500 ... 0.62mph 6.2secs ... 2 seater, 388bhp (-6.2%), 203bhp/ton (-23%) ... 2 out of 3.
8. ...
 

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Porsche 911 "O no sorry that has 4 seats"
 

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I think price will also be an important factor in determining the R8's competition. I still hope Audi sticks to their original plan in the US by pricing it near the Porsche C4S, or around $90k.
Here's a few others:
Jag XKR
Mercedes SL550
BMW M6
Corvette Z06
Maserati Coupe
Porsche Cayman RS
Cadillac XLR V
Used Gallardo
Used Ferrari 360
Lightly used Porsche Turbo
Lightly used Mercedes SL55
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
2006 Jaguar XKR ... I'm not going to add it to the list because it fails my manditory requirement of needing to be a 2 seater, although on engine bay power @ 420bhp and power to weight ratio @ 252bhp/ton it fits both the other conditions.

BMW M6 Coupe ... I'm not going to add the M6 to the list because it fails my mandatory requirement of needing to be a 2 seater, plus its almost 20% more powerful than the R8, although it does just about meet the power to weight ratio.

Corvette Z06 ...I'm not going to add the Z06 to the list because it fails both the power figures, the engine @ 512bhp is around 20% more than the R8 and the power to weight ratio @ 361bhp/ton is around 35% more than the R8, which ... imho ... puts the Z06 clearly in supercar teritory.

Maserati Coupe ... I'm not add the Maser to the list because it fails my mandatory requirement of needing to be a 2 seater, even though the power is in the +/-12% window at 385bhp, the Maser fails to hit the power to weight target, just, at 229bhp/ton.

2006 Cadillac XLR ... I'm not going to include the XLR in the list, while it is a 2 seater and the engine power is closer to the +/-12% window than the Caymen S, but its power to weight ratio is significantly below that of the R8.

Lamborghini Gallardo ... I'm not going to add the Gallardo to the list ... used, or otherwise ... 2 seater or not ... because it is around 20% more powerful @ 512bhp and has a power to weight ratio around 25% more at 331bhp/ton ... putting it, like the Corvette Z06, firmly in supercar teritory.

Porsche 911 turbo ... I'm not going to add the 911 turbo to the list ... used, or otherwise ... its not a genuine 2 seater and while the power to weight ratio @ 289bhp/ton falls inside the +/-125 window, the engine power @ 480 bhp is around 16% more than the R8's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Porsche Caymen S ... I'm not going to add the Caymen to the list ... however ... it is a genuine 2 seater and while the engine is significantly below the power of the R8 @ 295bhp (-29%), the power to weight ratio is not too far short of the lower end of the +/-12% window @ 220bhp/ton (-17%) ... can anyone argue for the Caymen S to be included in the list ... ???

... ... ...

If the Caymen S is argued for inclusion ... what about the BMW Z4M Coupe, or Roadster ...
both are 2 seaters,
both have 343bhp in the engine bay (-17%),
the Coupe give 229bhp/ton (-16%),
the Roadster gives 231bhp/ton (-13%)
... so the Z4M ... does it make the list or not ... ???

Personally I don't think the Caymen S, or Z4M, are quite close enough, power wise, to be included in the list of direct competition, although the Z4M is considerably closer than the Caymen S.
 

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Not sure those cars having midget-sized rear seats eliminates them as R8 competition...

Here's a few more:
Used Ford GT
Future Nissan GTR
and the future Lexus sport car:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Ford GT ... I'm not going to add it to the list because while it is a genuine 2 seater ... it has around 33% more power in the engine bay @ 550bhp ... which gives it around a 34% better power to weight ratio figure over the R8 @ 357bhp/ton ... this, imho, puts the Ford GT firmly in supercar teritory.

Future Nissan GT-R and the future Lexus sports cars ... well they are something to be considered in the future ... so I think it best they be left off the list too.

Honda is ... to the best of my knowledge ... playing with a new sports car ... if memory serves me right, I think the letters HSC form teh model designation ... that might well be worthy of consideration ... although I think it's not likely to hit the streets until 2008 if it makes it to production ...
...
...
 

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Why didn't the R8 look like this.

"This new sports car will be the first of a new generation" concluded the director of Honda, Takeo Fukui.
With the V10 the new NSX will be the most powerful honda ever made.The carmaker is aiming for the top in producing engines.
The new Honda/Acura NSX will move upmarket, and will target Aston Martin.
2008 NSX II will offer a 4.5 Liter V10 and a 3.6 V6 , all wheel drive with prices around $100,000.
 

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How about the porsche 997 gt3
2 seater only , they have removed the rear seats to save weight
1395kg
409bhp
298bhp/ton
rear engine,rear wheel drive
max speed 192mph
basic price £79540
Max torque 298ib ft @ 5500rpm
all these figures are quoted in this months evo mag
does this qualify Paul ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
How about the porsche 997 gt3 ... ... ...
GT3 and GT3 RS added ... also re-ordered the competition list based on how close the competition is to the R8 in terms of ... bhp/ton ... after all this figure is more of an indicatior as to a cars real world performance ... I suspect if I added 0-62mph times ... a list in bhp/ton order would prove to be extermely similar to one ordered on 0-62mph times ... maybe a job for another afternoon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The Honda HSC does look good ... from most angles ... but don't lok at it from side on ... the way the back window line drops into the rear of the car ... imho ... doesn't look that good.
Still if the HSC is as good when compared to cars on the road if/when it goes into production ... as the NSX was when it came out ... it should be an interesting car to say the least ... imho.

Anyway ... please leave the HSC ... and the discussion on other concept/future cars ... out of this topic from now on ... please lets get this thread back on topic ... and let people start concept/future car discussions in other threads.

This thread is meant to be looking for cars that can be considered as competition to the R8 ... regardless of cost ... by users putting forward cars that meet the following:
2 seater ... mandatory
414bhp ... +/-12%
265bhp/ton ... +/-12%

Thank you.
 

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Paul,

I think your arbitrary "limit" of 2 seats is a tad restrictive, especially when some of the "competition" has jump seats at best...

The Jag XKR is arguably #2 competitor for this car, after the Porsche 911 Carrera 4S, which you are ALSO ruling out because it claims to be able to seat 4.

More likely, the R8 competition is bascically "whatever GT or Sportscars are made in the £70-90k bracket"...

This would include Aston AMV8, Porsche 911 Carrera 4S (not GT3, that's too hardcore, and the R8 isn't).

It very much DOES include 2nd hand exotica which have depreciated to this level, including the F430, Lambo Gallardo. Why? Because if someone has a particular budget in mind, they will consider the other options available. Granted they can't be bought new for R8 money, but if they CAN be bought 2nd hand for that sort of cash...
 

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jampoTT... like Paul previously stated, the Gallardo is way overpowered and even used overpriced in the US by about 50K and so is the F430, which is overpriced by like 100K, used as well.
 

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The draw of the R8 has little to do with it having just 2 seats. Its obvious competition is the 911 C4S. Overlooking this fact is silly, especially in light of the fact that it might still outperform the r8 with the extra seats and rear engine set up. The R8 is special because it is a mid-engine V8/V10 that is not a Ferrari or Lamborghini. For some strange reason, car companies have decided that it was too difficult to make cars this way. Because of the R8 and the Lexus GT, mid engine sports cars will be more common, the R8 will have to work hard to be seen as the best one, especially if BMW gets in the game or Porsche gets hip.
 

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jampoTT... like Paul previously stated, the Gallardo is way overpowered and even used overpriced in the US by about 50K and so is the F430, which is overpriced by like 100K, used as well.
With the Gallardo having a sticker price of £120k in the UK, I'd be surprised not to be able to find a few examples around the £85k mark, which is what you'd spend on an R8 with a few toys thrown in.

Oh look. An £85k Gallardo. 2004 model. http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/97563.htm

I don't understand the concept of "overpowered". Why would a supposedly "faster" (at least "more powerful") car not be considered as competition for the R8 if you can buy it for the same price? Sure, rule out the UNDERPOWERED cars, because they can't compete on power. But a faster car MORE than competes on power... so having an upper limit is a bit silly.

If you can buy a "supercar" for R8 money, surely that has to be seen as competition?

Oh, and the Carrera 4S is the PRIMARY competitor for the R8 no matter what Paul says.
 

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You talk about overpriced? The Audi R8 is about 30 grand overpriced.

I've decided on a black Gallardo. This Audi isn't worth it. The wait time nor the price tag for what it is.


http://www.zhubanov.com/img/index.php?x=browse&category=4

:cool:

Good for you, although black is definately a rather boring choice.

Perhaps you can stop trying to turn every thread on here into an anti-R8 rant, now you don't plan to get one. Surely your interest in the R8 has now waned to the point you can just drift away? :p
 

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good luck with the gallardo hope yours spends more time with you than mine did with the dealer and i bet by the time the r8 is out you will of gone through at least 2 clutches
 
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