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Salt Water V8 Rebuild

29K views 395 replies 52 participants last post by  2old4this 
#1 ·
Tire Wheel Car Vehicle Sky



Hello, fellow Audi R8 owners and enthusiasts! My name is Jeremy and I live in central Illinois. I just (Thanksgiving 2022) purchased a salt-water flooded Audi R8, from Copart, after Hurricane Ian. My goal is to restore it slowly and keep it for many years. I am starting this post to network with you “regular” R8 owners, and perhaps a few other ambitious folks who bought one of these, for there were/are several available.
I hope to log here with words and pictures as much as I am able, so bear with me.

Specs: 2008, V8, gated manual with less than 30,000 miles (maybe less than 25k).

Major Damage:
  • Salt! (Yes, into the manifold intake boots of the engine, at least!)
  • Flooded to the roof
  • Interior components, electrical
  • Windshield cracked
  • Minor cosmetic external and undercarriage damage (see video)
  • Broken off water pump
  • Hole in sump cover (the “oil pan”)
Minor Damage:
  • Too much blinker fluid;)
  • Smell (mostly under control)
  • External bodywork, rear right taillight cover broken
Accomplished so far:
  • Seats out with no battery power (that was tedious, to say the least… I might detail in a later post)
  • Some interior pulled
Future Concerns:
  • Electrical components (I already purchased a nice used wiring harness, but…I’m color-blind!)
  • Engine (long list of things, more on that as we dig in)
  • “Burn-out” by an overwhelming list of tasks
Assets
  • Frame, drive train, wheels, etc. are straight
  • Brakes work (after a little pumping)
  • Doors, engine bay, and frunk open and close VERY cleanly! Well… the frunk release… well, anyway, as good as can be expected.
  • Ahhh, did I mention… it is a manual! (I don’t know how guys get flood-cars off trailers when they are automatics locked in park, but would love to hear if/how you can.)
  • Ebay, R8talk for parts
  • A great network of folks on R8talk!
My qualifications:
  • Mechanically inclined (sometimes reclined :))
  • General working knowledge of basic components
  • Not afraid to work, or get my hands dirty
  • Not in a hurry!
  • Rebuilt a few motorcycles (race and street)
  • Have some tools, small heated garage
  • I have an excited wife concerning the project (she likes seeing the R8 in our garage :))
My crazy goals:
  • Making the R8 as analog as possible (I hope to remove many “bells and whistles”, if possible.)
  • Starting a video series to tie in vehicle restoration with the Gospel of Jesus’ redemption of mankind.
Advice given me thus far:
  • “I would advise against it.” (direct words of the Copart broker!)
  • “Don’t do it, it will grenade in six months.” (friend who knows the business of cars)
  • “I have Audi-tech friends that have the garage, tools and experience, and even THEY wouldn’t attempt such a feat!” (motorcycle racer friend)
  • “Wow, that’s a big project, if anyone can do it, you can…”
  • “The two best days of your life, the day you bought the boat, and the day you sold the boat.”
  • “If you have the time, you’ll get it done…”
  • “If you can dream it, you can build it.” Requote I heard from Burt Rutan.

Jeremy
Christian, husband, father, Gospel preacher, machinist, author… and now Audi R8 owner… and restorer
 
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1
#347 ·
Well, Mr. Sideways91,

You must have read my mind. I was about to give a brief update, and here is a teaser pic of about where I am.

Handwriting White Coil spring Font Gas


These BY FAR were the easiest bolts on the car to take off.

Lately I tell people that I have been singing "all I want for Christmas is my engine out..."

Some have called others they deem of low intelligence "a few fries short of a happy meal,"
and I have declared more than once (concerning the engine out) that I am always "a few tools short of a Happy New Year."
It is not quite out... but I have only a little bit to go.

thanks for following,

more updates on the way

Happy New Year to you.

I have no intentions of slowing down on the car in the next few months, and I have most (used) replacement parts and will have to start assessing "new" parts from R8stuff soon for engine internal parts.

My greatest concern is that the cylinder walls might have been "a-salted". After watching Freddy Tavarish's video of his P1 engine tear down, I have come to a realization that the cylinder walls might be shot. No chance of just re-sleeving them, but maybe they can be re-coated. I am looking into all of that in anticipation that they are bad.

As far as the betting folks who have money in on whether or not I am "done" by the end of the year I say this:
"I hope to hear it run by Christmas of 2024". So, whether or not all of the other bugs are worked out and I deem it safe to drive... ehhh, we will see.

Jeremy
 
#348 ·
I have restored two cars that have been flooded from saltwater (6-8" of it, no where near roofline) neither suffered significant damage to my surprise. one had very extensive damage to anything that was powder coated, anything powder coated had to be repainted. both had the fuel systems invaded with saltwater and completely ravaged to the point where fuel pumps, fuel level sending unit, basically the entirety of the system pre motor had to be replaced. Neither had any saltwater invade the engine itself that i could tell.

this car however is a mess especially with the engine being invaded by saltwater, what i nightmare im having just imaging the state of the internals. If the dry sump system and clutch are toast thats a fortune for those two components alone.

This project will not be completed by the end of the year, it has a good chance of never being completed. there is a certain level of arrogance/ignorance to voluntarily take on something like this when your unqualified for it both experience wise and equipment wise. Thats just my gut feeling and 2cents anyways, i will recognize that sheer force of will and persistence along with lots of money can solve almost any problem.

To do this project is a feat, but to document it is just more work that i would not want to deal with.
Thats why i want to know how much you paid for this vehicle now instead of when its completed as you intend to do because that will be years from now, if ever.

As far as i see it: a man intending to construct a parachute on the way down rather than beforehand is a dead man

i guess im just an engine oil/saltwater mixture is half empty rather than half full kind of guy
 
#355 ·
Hey, seriously, I am not ignoring you by not answering any/all of this. But I am juggling a lot as usual.
I see your points, but as 2oldforthis says in paraphrase "it's what Jeremy wants to do"
I have a brief typed up reply for some of this, but I would like to get to some pix of "the mess" because people like pix.

Stay transparent like you are and we can all get along. Guys like me need JuddS's and guys like you to push us on. Keep it up. You too have brought up a few things I might want to talk about in the future, so I will put them in my random access memory.

thanks,

JB
 
#349 ·
Your absolutely are on the right track to go as analog as possible though. if i were you i would forsake as many components as possible and turn this into a gutted track car, probably even forsake the 4.2 for an ls motor with standalone. that would avoid most of the issues you are facing.

make lemonade from lemons and just gut the thing and put a cage in it and go universal wiring harness, standalone engine management and ls swap. ls with a mendiola transaxle or adapter plate for r8 transmission, the trouble with that route is you need real fabrication and welding skills or the money to dump into someone who does have those
 
#350 ·
I don't call it arrogance/ignorance at all. The guy has a can do attitude, hard work ethic and is using the project to bond with family and community. I'd say he has already won on this project.

I for one am cheering for him and bet he gets it "done", whatever he decides "done" means.

People tell me all the time I'm being too ambitious or I can't so something that I'm attempting. And... screw 'em! We can do whatever we want in life with hard work and a bit of luck.
 
#351 ·
well with respect JuddS; as an individual who "owns one hammer and one multipurpose screwdriver and that's it" i dont imagine you are in a position to recognize the red flags in this thread or the gravity of the situation.

Jeremy citing the charlatan Kiyosaki (i dont know whether to laugh or shake my head, read the news lately or about his history at all?) as well as his failure to recognize the exhaust system as stainless steel are just two items of noteworthiness to me. The bible beating is an entertaining cherry on top. If these as well as his ignoring all the people who deal with this stuff for a living who told him this was a bad idea while not being a good position to undertake this project is not demonstrative of some level of arrogance and ignorance then i dont know what to say.

kool aid and positivity may be tasty but i will stick with black coffee and realism myself
 
#356 ·
Here is the rear most under tray (not sure of the technical term) as it came off. I took a gopro of it from the other angle that might make it unto the channel that I desire to start... in my spare time.

It looks pretty bad.

Wood Gas Composite material Concrete Metal


Here is the mess from under both of the rear under pieces.

Asphalt Road surface Wood Concrete Soil


I keep thinking there is going to be a star fish or some sea shells or something, but it is just dirt and leaves.
 
#357 ·
More undercarriage rust, dirt, and damage:

waterpump housing... BAMM!

Automotive tire Art Motor vehicle Automotive wheel system Auto part


Here is the oil pan hole, and the other end of the coolant pipe that is also smashed. BIFF!

Wood Gas Automotive exhaust Metal Automotive tire


SMASH! It is hard to see, but there is a dent in the rear end of the prop shaft here. Maybe now is a good time to consider a RWD, huh? (Just kidding, for those of you who are going to jump all over my case)

Here is the AC undercarriage scoop (again, I am not sure of the technical term, I am just referring to what it appears to "do", I know these terms as I look in the manual, just don't remember at the moment) It too saw some damage. I think this happened during the removal from the yellow beam in the parking garage because it appeared to be intact in the video someone took of it while it was still elevated.

Wood Gas Automotive exterior Automotive tire Bumper


I was worried about some stubborn bolts on these T30s, but only 1 was bad and here is what I did for some of you that have the same problem.

This T30 started to spin inside the teeth just a little, so i took a 4mm Allen and added a little spin of its own, then hammered the T30 into place until I was sure it wasn't going anywhere. Then I loosened it with great relief. It will be discarded. The rest looked good, and will get cleaned and re-black-oxided.

Household hardware Gas Door Wood Metal
 
#359 ·
Thanks,

I have penetrating oil. I used it on the two bolts that hold the oil cooler hoses into the sump. They snapped off anyway! More on that later!!
Yes, I agree, it is your friend. I thought I lost it, but it turned out it was sitting in the center console inside the car when I was ranging around the house looking for it. My MT line froze up (no surprise) and I have been soaking it.

Yes, Jeremy would like to thank his sponsors: Ziplock and Schaeffer's Penetrating Oil.

Anyway, on with some more pix.
 
#361 ·
Here is the B and O amp.

Before
Paint Rectangle Wood Fixture Gas



Before and after five minutes of soda blasting.

Passive circuit component Circuit component Hardware programmer Electronic component Electronic engineering


Circuit component Passive circuit component Hardware programmer Electronic engineering Electronic component


I have postponed ordering the ultrasonic cleaner for another week, quite frankly because I do not want another toy, ah, tool to work with. There really is genuine light at the end of the tunnel of "engine out."

If the ultrasonic cleans these so they can be used again... I get a cookie. If not... JuddS gets a cookie! Either way, my family gets to make cookies. I literally gained like 12-14 lbs over the holidays... so, I really don't need any cookies right now.

Some components need to be replaced for sure, others, I think might be salvageable.

Thankfully a new/used nav unit just came in the mail today. The box was damaged in spite of the fellow writing "FRAGILE" all over it, but the unit was unharmed. It SURE looks better than the old unit.

Brown Handwriting Material property Font Shipping box
 
#363 ·
And last for the night is a little aesthetics. I wasn't wanting to leave folks with all of those hideous images of "internal" damage. More on that in the days to come.

Last year (as the picture shows) after the project arrived, my wife got me a garbage can for Christmas. No seriously, she understands. This year she has been and will be putting her other experimental talents to use. I have decided to add a little white pleather diamond stitched flare in just a few places to brighten things up in the "cockpit". The first piece was easy, but this was one of her Christmas gifts to me this year. It goes behind the seats in case you didn't recognize the shape.


Wood Flooring Rectangle Gas Hardwood

Rectangle Wood Tints and shades Font Automotive exterior


a wise Man (Jesus) once said "...cleanse first that which is within the cup..."

So. Goodnight friends. I hope to get the heart of the beast out by this weekend! Then... we will take a look inside.

JB
 
#368 ·
Following this thread and have some observations:-

Freddy Tavarish offers a wealth of insight into what Jeremy B is facing. Also Matt Armstrong with this McLaren re-build. Freddy paid somewhere around $500,000 for the P1 and I would guess he will probably never get close to recovering his costs of the re-build. I am not sure but it seems that a lot of the parts/help/products that are going into his re-build are heavily subsidized for the publicity ? His main income, like Matt A, comes from You Tube. So the costs of re-building the P1 like Matts cost of his McLaren are not the primary concern, they are running a business that is based around entertaining us. The more entertaining the project the better for views and revenue, and I see that Matt A will then raffle some of his builds, that I am sure generate more revenue.

So, taking a car that has been submerged in salt water to rebuild seems to me like a losing preposition financially. The P1 body is carbon fiber whereas the R8 is metal and will suffer all sorts of corrosion. (aluminum corrodes in salt water as well as steel) Just thinking back to ED Gaskets last video where the bolts for the suspension are "sleeved" into the chassis due to the steel/aluminum transition makes me think the problems you would face would be almost endless. Also looking at Ed Gaskets recent builds and subsequent sales shows that there is no "profit" in even a more mundane rebuild. I know Jeremy B is not looking for "profit" but treating it more as a hobby/pass time. The last Tavarish video on the P1 that centered on the wiring harness/electrical was illuminating (no pun intended) his expert accomplice was basically saying anything electrical is toast. They might appear to be OK after cleaning etc. but cannot be relied on and failures can occur at any time in the future.

Given that to re-build the submerged R8 you will be looking at replacing substantial parts of the car, and some very expensive components, I would think the best option would be to find a "donor" vehicle for most of these parts/components. A totaled R8 from a front end collision or something like that? I could see you spending more on parts than a similar car is worth, without taking into account what was paid to Copart ?

Jeremy, please do not take any offence at my comments, just bystanders observation.
 
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#374 ·
" Freddy paid somewhere around $500,000 for the P1 and I would guess he will probably never get close to recovering his costs of the re-build. "

"Jeremy, please do not take any offence at my comments, just bystanders observation."

Well Steve, it appeared that the P1 was Freddy's "dream car". If that is what he wants to pay for it, great.
I have never really had a "dream car", but pulled the trigger on this with several other motives. To "pay for it" by ad revenue would be a miracle on my end, but again that was not the goal. So, if the R8 were my dream car, I still feel ohhh, 400k ahead of Freddy. Same hurricane, different cars.

As for taking offence, no worries. I never started this "publicly" to hide from criticism. I agree with what you and 2oldforthis have been saying. Ghost problems. I literally have no guarantees, but the one thing I will get is a little knowledge and some "sweat equity."

Thanks for your input. Don't feel bad for criticizing, I am told that the Wright brothers argued like crazy just to get man to fly.

As much as I need "you can do it man, get on it."
I need some REAL constructive criticism.

Proverbs 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

I'd rather take a left hook from a friend, than get a hug from a pickpocket.

Thanks,

JB
 
#369 ·
Yes, Jeremy will spend more time and money, but it is a hobby he shares with his family. So I think it is worth it. I am looking forward to him bringing the engine and transmission alive.

As for Tavarish, I am surprised (shocked, I say) if he is saying wiring is ok. I bet he did not even use hair conditioner after washing the wires. How is he going to straighten them after they are dry? </sarcasm>
(Disclaimer: I stopped watching him when he aligned his McLaren’s chassis using a $3 electronic level.)
 
#370 ·
2old4this. Tavarish has obtained 3 wiring looms for the P1 from various McLarens to try and put together a good one for the P1. Each McLaren having different specs. What I was saying is that the expert he brought in to help with this had stated that basically all the wiring, any electric, was going to be toast even though it might look good on the surface/outside. He explained that issues invisible to the naked eye would render anything and everything a problem or potential problem going forward.
 
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#371 ·
That is so true. Wiring issues are the most sneaky ones, especially if they have been under water. Even if you dry them out, the dirt and salt left in the plugs slowly corrode the metal. Sooner or later, you start seeing ghost issues.
IMO, you can recycle everything except wires (unless you plan to sell the car.)
 
#372 ·
Well before the days of fuel injection, ridiculous wiring harnesses, harbor freight and hardware stores...engines were still pulled!

Here is a picture of my grandfather, dad, a couple of uncles, and I think even an aunt in the background getting the engine out of a car "back in the day."

Yes, that is a washline pole that grandma had to sacrifice (my dad came from a family of 17!) and not hang laundry on for a time so that the car could get an engine swap.

Classic!




Legend has it that my grandfather (on the left) dismantled the entire garage in the back ground, bent every nail back, and rebuilt it with new lumber where needed with the same nails from the original. My aunt still parks in that garage... I think.

Our family gathered for my dad's birthday back in fall of last year and had an old fashioned slide show in the garage. It was great. When my brother clicked on this picture and it gleamed against grandpa's (my dad) garage door I said, "Hey, I need that for the forum!" So my brother texted it off to me in short order. Thanks, brother, if you are reading this. I love my dad. Sometimes when I think that I am 'clever' and feel 'resourceful', I am reminded of how they had it, and how they got along anyway. Today, we are just spoiled.

anyway... on with show...
 
#373 ·
I have told a few folks that pulling an engine is a bit like a home birth. Out of my four total children I have attended all of their births but the emergency c-section.

There are delicate things to be considered, and the stress is high because you don't want to drop or break anything.

Concerning the R8 engine out.... there were times when I sent the children out of the garage (in case something fell, etc, b/c the engine and trans are like 700 lbs. I think).

Yes, I laid the Crocs aside and those are steel toes in the picture.



I left my gray hair showing for proof of the stress this has caused.... or maybe it was there when I started, not really sure.

More pix later... can you believe there was water still in there?

JB
 
#376 ·
Jeremy, you reminded me of something I did not think of, "same hurricane", wow, yes after all this time, hurricane Ian gave both you and Freddy the cars to rebuild. I do hope that you are both successful in your own ways.
 
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#378 ·
This week I started to go back and forth between tinkering on the engine, and the chassis. I think it is good to go back and forth (both need work done) so I can stay fresh in mind on both.

I got the manifolds off of the engine and was not surprised to see this.

Motor vehicle Gas Auto part Nut Automotive exterior


Here is a close up of one of those...

Gas Metal Fixture Circle Wood


It was a greasy-like substance that dried rubbery. Maybe I will send it off to the lab and I could win a Nobel prize for curing cancer or something... Or not.

Here is the one of the exhaust manifolds. They both still "sloshed" when I pulled them off. So I rinsed through them and then set them out to dry.

Wood Artifact Natural material Metal Soil


"What was inside?" you ask.

Orange gooo.

Water Road surface Asphalt Art Sidewalk


Don't drink it!

Yummy.
 
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