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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why would I ever turn off the ESP?:eek:
 

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In the dry weather its not really needed if you know your car well enough.

When I am out at the track I normally turn it off on my M3. Probably will do the same when I take my R8 out.
 

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I was out on the track with my R8 a couple of weeks ago and tried both with and without ESP/ASR. I couldn't really feel a gain turning it off and ended up leaving it on when it started raining, which saved me from the numerous spins that other cars were experiencing.

As a sidenote nothing other than a fully race-prepared car could keep up. I ended the day in front of a 450hp M3 and a Porsche Turbo even though a number of the drivers were probably better than me.
 

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you don't need esp when u've parked ur car?!

o a serious note, when u are not going hit other cars from spinning then u can have it off. (track with lots of run-off)
 

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I was out on the track with my R8 a couple of weeks ago and tried both with and without ESP/ASR. I couldn't really feel a gain turning it off and ended up leaving it on when it started raining, which saved me from the numerous spins that other cars were experiencing.

As a sidenote nothing other than a fully race-prepared car could keep up. I ended the day in front of a 450hp M3 and a Porsche Turbo even though a number of the drivers were probably better than me.
My M3 performed worlds better with DSC off, but this was on a perfectly dry day.

And the tires still had plently of grip left
 

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Having owned both I don't think the ESP is not as intrusive as the DSC on the M3 E46. While it's almost impossible to have any fun with the DSC on at the track. The ESP on the R8 is fabulous and hardly noticeable. Maybe this has to do with it's stabilized AWD mid-engine platform.
 

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I have tracked the R8 enough to learn to really trust it and really throw it around. It's predictable and slides in a controlled manner - it's a blast! However, if you do that and don't turn off the ESP, it soon freaks out. The ESP light comes on, the sport mode light on the suspension button goes out, and you get an error on the DIS (driver information display). Apparently it can handle only a certain amount of correction, and if you keep it up it throws an error. All you have to do is turn off the car and then when you restart it, it's all cleared. I was very glad to find that out the first time.

So, you actually need to turn off the ESP if you really track it hard by sliding it through most turns.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
So...Sliding through most of the turns produces QUICKER lap times? Having the sport mode switch off at any time means loss of power and slower shifts so thanks for the warning. Why doesn't the ABS prevent the ESP from shutting down I wonder How many seconds per lap are saved having ESP off? :eek::eek::eek::eek: Remember...I need R 8 experiences. I also drive a '58 VW bug . A different driving style for sure. ( '58 ,Early 15 " Porsche alloys ,4 wheel discs brakes,FAT sway bars front and rear, raised front spindles, eurethane bushings,rear camber compensator,traction bar,body off restoration,rag top,semiphore door post turn signals, dual master cylinder,stainlss steel brakelines,2016 C.C. ,dual 48 mm Weber I.D.A. carbs, med. rise manifolds, electronic ignition (pointless),dual muffler merged exhaust system, 1/2 roll cage, Honda bucket seats, Phantom black , Polished and painted wheels.(original style Fuchs) ESP...ABS...ASR?...DSC? HMMMMM
 

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Well, in my opinion, sliding on it's own is not faster than not sliding, since the friction is actually slowing you down during the slide. BUT, in order to be sliding you are going a lot faster to begin with - your entrance speed to the turn is much faster and the exit speed is also likely faster. So overall, if you get to the point of sliding it thru turns, you are going notably faster.

I do think that running with ESP turned off is generally faster than running with it turned on, but boy you better know your car and know what you're doing, because it's not going to save your butt if you do something um.. unintentional.

I don't really time myself very often, so I don't really have any numbers of seconds. In general I am moving along pretty quick, usually hanging with the top cars in the instructors group, and usually only passed by high powered fully race prepared cars. That Daytona video I posted shows that, I ran in the instructor's group there.

mt
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
MotherTucker --Thank-you. How many miles do you have racked up on your R 8 and how many of those miles were on a track? Where do I find the video? Since yours is an '09 are you still on your first set of Pirellis'
 

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I've had the car since August and have 5400 miles so far. Probably 500 to 1000 of those are track miles. I don't run the stock street tires on the track, I bought a 2nd set of wheels and run Hoosier R compounds (slicks).

Here's a link to my Daytona post here, it contains a link to the video.

http://www.r8talk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2456

MT
 

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I thought the theory says if you are sliding you are slower because of the lost of traction and wrongly directed momentum. the fastest should be just when the tires are at their limit, street tire will squeak slightly but slicks or what we call R-tire in hong kong (e.g. Yokohama A048) will be much more difficult to tell.
 

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I was out on the track with my R8 a couple of weeks ago and tried both with and without ESP/ASR. I couldn't really feel a gain turning it off and ended up leaving it on when it started raining, which saved me from the numerous spins that other cars were experiencing.

As a sidenote nothing other than a fully race-prepared car could keep up. I ended the day in front of a 450hp M3 and a Porsche Turbo even though a number of the drivers were probably better than me.
I should add that the day started with a pretty icy track, which thawed after a while, after which we got rain. In other words I wasn't able to do a lot of driving on the dry track.

Also individual driving style is relevant here. My style has been described as highly controlled -whatever that means- so ESP is likely to kick in less often than with someone with a more exhuberant driving style.
 

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There is a HUGE difference imo when you turn it off. Keep in mind, there are two levels of it. You can either hit the button once to turn off traction control, or you can hold the button and turn off ALL the stability control. Doing the latter of the two will result in a car that is much easier to lose control of. While it is AWD, you can easily find yourself in a spin if you don't know what you're doing.

On a track day, I'd just turn of the TC. It's not a race and you can't go as fast as possible anyway, so there is no point in really trying to take it that close to the limit to shave some time off a lap time that is bounded by traffic to begin with.
 

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didn't know about holding the button down. interesting.

i have experienced ESP turning off by itself many times after a really fast hard turns. I thought it was messed up at first, to find out it was normal for it to turn off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Greetings Rob A. Don't you mean The ESP kicks OFF when exuberant driving.?I have been introduced to an Audi book called Audi 135 training ssp.Have you heard of it? There are many driving styles but I would think that the builders of the car should know best! I agree with you about sliding... scrubbs off speed. This isn't drifting wer'e talkin' about !!...I will order this book A.S.A.P.( E-Bay motors..manuals).When it stops raining I will test to see if holding ESP button down turns off more than just ESP. I need the book that explains this type of stuff to me. My glovebox book is a little vague about the best Jackrabbit way to start ! But glove book does say beware of wear and tear. And WEDOUGLAS haven't you ever been in a situation similar to pole positioning. Imagine ..everything possible must be done...and correctly to get that pole position. And I imagine that when I hear my tires squeel that ESP probably shuts down for a split second??? I am keeping my eyes on only the road when squeeling occurs. My all wheel drive Hummer H3 's ESP. shuts off momentarily every time I get airborne. I see the same looking alert ...A little image of a car sliding in the rear! ESP symbol must be UNIVERSAL. Think the space shuttle has the same? (just joking).
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
How are you digging Jing-Jing!! How long have you had her,and how many miles so far? Oh I see you have "09.Cool.I will look if you have pics. I agree with your driving style. If a guy can't do over160 MPH at Daytona in an R8 something is wrong.Standard or automatic. Heck 160 attained on the frywy at night here.
 

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Wedouglas is completely correct,.. With the computer system on, I feel that I have a huge net catching my car and slowing me down in every turn. The system is there as a good set of 'training wheels', and everyone should use it until you have a good 5, or 6 or more track days. I've had probably about 40 track days or more now in the R8 since last March. At least a 1/3 of my miles are on the track. I use Toyo R888 tires on both of my track cars.

The R8 is such a dream to drive hard. It really presents you with VERY few unpleasant surprises, and those usually have to do with not settling your car up correctly gear wise, when adjusting for some inadequate downforce as you move with speed over slight elevation changes. You need to learn how and when to change gears relative to the track terrain for maintaining proper downforce to the track. Always get a good local instructor to show you a new track!!

Yes, slidding is ALWAYS slower than taking the same line at the same speed and NOT sliding. But when you are driving at the limits, sliding in the middle or in the exit of a turn, will occur sometimes. We are talking only a few inches to 2-5 feet max. Nothing more. More than that, you are loosing serious time and you're driving crazy.

If you are now driving in the fastest groups, I would say you should be ready to try turning the ESP off completely.> Drive your laps slower and smoother, and then slowly add a lil mo speed on each successive lap. Our best learning occurs gradually with slower, deliberate repetitions,... so approach it that way. Always choose SMOOTH rather than FAST. Look FAR ahead down the track.

The difference without ESP really is HUGE and quite wonderful. The R8 is such a natural driving track machine that it will build your confidence up correctly if you listen to it.

Have fun, be fast and be safe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I used to think that driving with ESP off was disabling the all wheel dr and sending MORE torque to rear wheels only ...but vehicle is ALL wheel drive and ALL the time ...right? And I'll stick to my guns that almost anyone can go fast in a straight line...It's when you feel hard lateral G-forces that I really like !
 

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Don't you mean The ESP kicks OFF when exuberant driving? ... My all wheel drive Hummer H3 's ESP. shuts off momentarily every time I get airborne. I see the same looking alert ...A little image of a car sliding in the rear!
When you see the ESP light flickering on the dash during sporty maneuvers, that does NOT mean ESP is turning off or having an error. Instead, it means that ESP is actively intervening in the handling of the car (see post below). Most likely, the computer sensed a slip angle and is either tapping one of the brakes or is actively varying the torque applied to the wheels.

It's not always possible to feel this on the street, where the irregularities of the road tends to mask the ESP inputs.

At the R8 Experience at Sears Point, we could really feel the ESP "helping" us on the Carousel (Turn 6). This is a fast, descending turn that the ESP computer senses as a loss-of-control situation. It kept gently tapping the front outside brake in an effort to help the car go straight! (BTW, this ESP effect was much more noticeable on the cars equipped with the Sport Suspension vs. those with Magnetic Ride.)
 
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