I'm curious as to why the Gen 1 R8 used car market has tanked since early this year? Edmunds has my 2015 R8 V10 Plus S-tronic with 26k miles in outstanding condition dropping from ~ 118k to 80k (Trade in value)since 1/23!?? A 40k drop over 6 months seems very excessive. If sold privately, it is "worth" ~ 98k. Kelly BB doesn't even have an estimate for the R8. Black Book estimates 101k (Trade in) to 110k (private selling). I know this is a difficult car to price when trading/selling it privately but why the HUGE drop in value over the past few months?
GasmanR8
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My guess is its the interest rates along with consumers being hit by inflation.
for the most part, Gen 1 r8 buyers are typically not very wealthy in my opinion. Of course, thats a generalization and some owners im sure are legit rich.
In general, It's not a car for rich people but rather for an enthusiast who wants to stretch their dollar and have an amazing car. With interest rate increases the monthly payments have gone up for an average buyer who uses credit to purchase the car.
That doesn't explain it totally, but I guess it explains a 15% drop in value or so.
These cars were amazing values at their high prices. Even better now!
for the most part, Gen 1 r8 buyers are typically not very wealthy in my opinion. Of course, thats a generalization and some owners im sure are legit rich.
In general, It's not a car for rich people but rather for an enthusiast who wants to stretch their dollar and have an amazing car. With interest rate increases the monthly payments have gone up for an average buyer who uses credit to purchase the car.
That doesn't explain it totally, but I guess it explains a 15% drop in value or so.
These cars were amazing values at their high prices. Even better now!
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I've always loved that question, "what's it worth?" as the answer is always "whatever someone is willing to pay for it".
I'm not sure all real wealthy buys who own gen 1 want a gen 2 though. I personally just don't like the look of the gen 2. I'm wasting my car money these days on fancy SUV's over getting a gen 2.
I'd still consider a black gen 1 2014-2015 unmodified v10 car with lower Mike's and diamond stitched seats, but have not seen one come up at a decent price. There is one in Boston McLaren but they want like 130k and fidelity warranty was like 10k on top of that. Seems stupid for a bit faster car with a bit lower miles than mine
I'm not sure all real wealthy buys who own gen 1 want a gen 2 though. I personally just don't like the look of the gen 2. I'm wasting my car money these days on fancy SUV's over getting a gen 2.
I'd still consider a black gen 1 2014-2015 unmodified v10 car with lower Mike's and diamond stitched seats, but have not seen one come up at a decent price. There is one in Boston McLaren but they want like 130k and fidelity warranty was like 10k on top of that. Seems stupid for a bit faster car with a bit lower miles than mine
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Is anyone actively following the boat or airplane market? I think those tend to take much bigger hits than the car market. I'm a casual dream shopper of airplanes and see a lot of them are starting to say "Priced Upon Request" instead of listing the price. I wonder if those markets are taking huge hits and a buying opportunity is coming up.
And 95k for a 9k manual v10 is auto theft. I hope you gave the seller a box of kleenex or a reach around to get that price.
And 95k for a 9k manual v10 is auto theft. I hope you gave the seller a box of kleenex or a reach around to get that price.
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I love the prediction tracking. My favorite one was to watch the thread about bitcoin when everyone was sure about future prices. I'd bet almost 50% of my predictions are completely wrong. I'd be happy with 40% being wrong. In fact, I just read a great article where Buffet was saying most of his investment decisions have been mediocre at best and that he attributes almost all of his success to just 12 decisions he has made over his 50 year career. I think he referenced investing in American Express and Disney, but I dont recall which ones. Some other big shot said he only made like 5 market predictions over 40 years that he bet on.
It keeps boiling down to the fact that no one really has any idea what is going to happen and even the best of the best professionals are only really "right" about once a decade.
Aside from my terrible call on natural gas this year, another stellar move I made was buying PEAK, which I'm down 34.11% on. I really should stick to my day job....
It keeps boiling down to the fact that no one really has any idea what is going to happen and even the best of the best professionals are only really "right" about once a decade.
Aside from my terrible call on natural gas this year, another stellar move I made was buying PEAK, which I'm down 34.11% on. I really should stick to my day job....
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The fidelity warranty is worth real money in my opinion. I've mentioned this before, by mine has paid out, on average about $12,000 in repair costs per year. It appears to me that the market doesn't really value the fidelity warranty, but it should. I would absolutely pay more for a car with a balance of a fidelity warranty than one without.
The best bang for the buck is a V8 that is not low mileage. Or, a collector car that will not lose much value or appreciate (if that's a thing).
I priced out a fidelity warranty on a 2014 v10 I was looking at an it was really expensive. The guy from the car club near vegas helped me (I'm sorry I forgot his name, but someone please post if you can) and he was professional and great to work with.
The best bang for the buck is a V8 that is not low mileage. Or, a collector car that will not lose much value or appreciate (if that's a thing).
I priced out a fidelity warranty on a 2014 v10 I was looking at an it was really expensive. The guy from the car club near vegas helped me (I'm sorry I forgot his name, but someone please post if you can) and he was professional and great to work with.
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I'd talk to this guy about the warranty Trenton Gibson <tgibson@highline-autos.com> I dont know him but he seems great and people on here know him.
I'm just not sure if the warranties are worth it at current prices. I got mine in 2018 on a 2014 car that had 8k miles and paid like 4,500 for a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty. I think they are only selling 3 year warranties on these cars now for over 10k. I could be totally wrong on that though. If I did my own work, I would definitely not get a warranty on a gen 1 car at current prices.
I'm just not sure if the warranties are worth it at current prices. I got mine in 2018 on a 2014 car that had 8k miles and paid like 4,500 for a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty. I think they are only selling 3 year warranties on these cars now for over 10k. I could be totally wrong on that though. If I did my own work, I would definitely not get a warranty on a gen 1 car at current prices.
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You are totally right on about me being a bit of a weird use case and not the norm. I drive a heck of a lot and have all work (minus the last round of rotors) done at the most expensive dealer around. I also think I have had more warranty repair work than anyone minus the guys who had blown engines which seem pretty rare.
I also got my 2014 R8 in 2018 with less than 10k miles on it and bought a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty for like $4,500 bucks. From what I understand the warranties are a lot cheaper when the cars are less then 5 years old and have less than 10,000 miles on them.
I'm always bad with remembering numbers and times accurately but I think if I did indy repairs the total repair bill (at an indy) would have been only like $30,000 over my 6 year and 70,000 miles driven. And I think that $20,000 of those hypothetical indy repair costs came in years 4 - 6.
You post begs the question though, is there a warranty that is basically only for if the engine or transmission goes bad?
I also got my 2014 R8 in 2018 with less than 10k miles on it and bought a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty for like $4,500 bucks. From what I understand the warranties are a lot cheaper when the cars are less then 5 years old and have less than 10,000 miles on them.
I'm always bad with remembering numbers and times accurately but I think if I did indy repairs the total repair bill (at an indy) would have been only like $30,000 over my 6 year and 70,000 miles driven. And I think that $20,000 of those hypothetical indy repair costs came in years 4 - 6.
You post begs the question though, is there a warranty that is basically only for if the engine or transmission goes bad?
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I always laugh when people talk about cars as an "investment". These are toys and I have seen no logical argument for it ever being close to an investment.
Speaking as a business owner, if I want another car I have to first take that money out of the company and get hit with like 35 to 40% tax. So if I want a 100k car the business takes a loss of $135 or so. That money could have otherwise grown at whatever the business is capable of achieving or at worst in today's market 5% guaranteed return. So thats like 150 after a few years.
On the buy side I have to pay 8% tax on my 100k car or 8k. Then a 7k warranty. Then insurance for a grand a year. Then gas. Then tires. Then oil. Then repairs.
There is zero way anyone can convince me these are "investments" and I think we should all stop lying to ourselves. Of course, a few specialty card are exceptions when the market is timed right (by luck).
Now, I propose we start a thread called "R8 is Great Investment" where we can all show our significant other that we bought these cars in a responsible way. But everyone has to play along as it could help some guy/girl get their dream car.
Speaking as a business owner, if I want another car I have to first take that money out of the company and get hit with like 35 to 40% tax. So if I want a 100k car the business takes a loss of $135 or so. That money could have otherwise grown at whatever the business is capable of achieving or at worst in today's market 5% guaranteed return. So thats like 150 after a few years.
On the buy side I have to pay 8% tax on my 100k car or 8k. Then a 7k warranty. Then insurance for a grand a year. Then gas. Then tires. Then oil. Then repairs.
There is zero way anyone can convince me these are "investments" and I think we should all stop lying to ourselves. Of course, a few specialty card are exceptions when the market is timed right (by luck).
Now, I propose we start a thread called "R8 is Great Investment" where we can all show our significant other that we bought these cars in a responsible way. But everyone has to play along as it could help some guy/girl get their dream car.
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I'm wondering if market pricing has always been this crazy. And disjointed. I'm up in Aspen for a few weeks and have been spending a month or two a year out here for decades. I read an article today about pricing of rental units and hotel rooms and this week it is up 45% vs last year.
How the heck are luxury car prices correcting and the same people who buy those cars (these mountain towns have more wealthy visitors I believe than even the fancy hotel in stay at sometimes like Ritz and Four Seasons) and people are willing to drop 45% more a night on lodging but cars sitting unsold and ovepriced? I don't get it.
Also, full disclosure 90% of my hotel nights are in Hampton inns so I'm not trying to be too fancy here with these comments.
How the heck are luxury car prices correcting and the same people who buy those cars (these mountain towns have more wealthy visitors I believe than even the fancy hotel in stay at sometimes like Ritz and Four Seasons) and people are willing to drop 45% more a night on lodging but cars sitting unsold and ovepriced? I don't get it.
Also, full disclosure 90% of my hotel nights are in Hampton inns so I'm not trying to be too fancy here with these comments.
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This thread has me thinking, are we coming up on a great buying opportunity? I mean, these dealers are approaching winter in a few months and my understanding is they have these cars financed so if they bought an r8 for 100k 6 months ago at 10% interest they have already lost 5k in juice. And holding it another winter would be another 5k in juice.
Perhaps late fall is going to be the time when we see some fire sales? I don't understand the business though so perhaos I'm totally wrong.
Perhaps late fall is going to be the time when we see some fire sales? I don't understand the business though so perhaos I'm totally wrong.
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