subb'd

 

Thank you for this. The price/quality ratio of the OEM shocks is abismal. And to not have mag ride alternatives other than re-manufactured oem shocks is scary. I'm a capitalist at heart, so I welcome a more realistic price point for this technology.

 

Thanks for being the guinea pig for us haha... following to see how these hold up!

 

Many of us will sit quietly observing how this works out and if it works out for the OP I dare say many will also quietly purchase these struts if things go even slightly well. Is it a risk to spend $1000.00 to "test" these out? Yep. But I recall reading many posts of those that have stated they have less than 10K miles on their cars before the original Audi struts went bad while others have 50+ K on their cars with no known issues. This is a risk for the OP and I appreciate what he's doing and will look forward to updates.

We have a vendor on this site who has a direct link with Nagengast and has made obtaining these struts about as easy as possible for R8 owners on this side of the world who I also give a tip of my hat. You'd have to believe Nagengast did their homework to determine all the cost variables to make a profit so what has this Chinese company done to further dramatically cut the costs........cheap labor for sure but what else? I'm hopeful for the OP and feel strongly he will provide an honest report of how these perform.

Its a shame we can't or don't have a company do a comparison of the 3 side by side in a real test. The original Audi, Nagengast and these Chinese versions. An ideal world, blah, blah, blah. Kind of reminds me of those magazines who do side by side comparisons of soaps, shampoo's and lotions comparing the ridiculously expensive offerings to the drug store generics and finding no real difference other than one item costs $85.00 for 4 ounces while the drug store generic version sells for $4.50 for 4 ounces but works equally well. As said I'm hopeful for the OP.

 

Ask Project Farm

 

Just for fun with hopes of that maybe Project Farm would entertain a comparative test I asked them. To their credit they replied within 24 hours. Todd replied with "I wish I could help, but this one I just don't have the test equipment needed to give this a high quality review."

Shame.

 

Early update: I am 90% happy with the shocks. No leaks after 50 miles and they feel great. My only complaint so far is that the fronts bottom out on larger bumps. My thought is that the spring rates are the issue, and not the shock. I noticed that the aftermarket ones I bought* have slightly smaller diameter springs on the fronts. I noticed this when I installed them, but I didn't think much of it. In the coming days I will likely swap the springs, reinstall, and continue with the updates. See picture below.

*There are a lot of China sellers selling shocks for the R8. It appears, looking at pictures, some sellers include thicker or more robust springs than the one I bought.

 

As you mention a difference in spring diameter, I wonder what else might use a thinner metal on it. If I had the sets side by side, I would be taking all sorts of measurements just to find out what is actually different between the two of them.

 

It's subjective but for those of us who have gone down the Nagengast route, I'd say their product would top the 3 way test on quality.

 

I hate to have results for this review already, but here it is. The replacement front shocks were bottoming out and I thought the spring rate was the culprit (see post #7). After removing the springs from both the OEM and China shocks, I discovered that the body (tube) of the China shock is short. The OEM shock body (tube) was ~9.75". The China shock was 8.25". A whole 1.5" difference in the length of the body. I stopped what I was doing and am processing a return of the shocks. Until another option is available (if ever), Nagengast reigns supreme.

 

Great effort on the install as well as the write-up Itemup4650. I'm knee deep down this route as well with a set of 4 on the way from China. I got them at the price of $301 each with free DHL shipping during the recent 11.11 sale. Sad to know that your long term review ended prematurely with that disturbing discovery of having a shorter tube length. I have decided on proceeding with the install on my R8 V10 once I get them and would be more that happy to update this thread if I face a similar issue.

 

Well that sucks! Good thing you figured it out in the return window. This would give me cold feet about other differences in the units. Pretty big error.

 

wow, what a huge defect. Thanks for taking the risk on this experiment. I don't think you'd get much better results going with another vendor, they probably more or less get made in the same factory.

 

Great find and very helpful for others considering this route.

 

Thanks everyone. Yes, it is disappointing, but I am glad I gave it a shot. If nothing else, it is a data point for others.

@RaysterV10 , for your sake, I hope that sellers in China have different sources and yours will in fact be different and OEM tube length. You can't see the tube length difference unless the spring is off of each and you compare them side by side. You might be able to slide the upper dust cover up on both shocks and measure without taking the spring off, but having the s that's how I discovered it.

I apologize that I didn't take a picture when I had them side by side with the springs off. I thought I did, but it appears I didn't. I drew this picture to share just to be sure everyone is exactly clear on what I mean.

 

Interesting that others who've had the shocks have not experienced any bottoming out, even as quickly as you did. In fact, ClientR8 who has been running them for some time said that you can't remove the spring without ruining the shock. How did you remove the spring without ruining the shock? And you're still able to return it?

Are you sure you don't work for Nagengast?

 

@madflava ,

Haha, no I don't work for Nagengast.

The OEM shock uses a top with an integrated pin into the piston shaft of the shock to energize the coil. The china copies (at least the ones I had) just run a wire out of the top to a connector. In order to get the spring off without ruining it, you have to de-pin the electrical connector in order to feed the wire through the top piece that screws on to the shock's piston shaft.

The others that have not experienced the issue I did might have a different copy. There appears to be several out there so maybe some are a better copy?

 

One last detailed compare photo.
Either this seller sold the ones they had remaining, or they removed them (set quantity available to zero) based on my feedback. Return was accepted. I have a return label and they are headed back this afternoon.
See attached compare photo.

 

I appreciate the pictures and updates. I just checked ebay, sellers seem to have multiplide like spring bunnies! And with various products, or so it seems.

 

Here we go. So I received the 4 new shocks by UPS last week and got on to install them over the weekend.

First thing's first, although I am aware that the shocks are corner specific i.e. having designated part numbers (420 412 019 Front Left / 420 412 020 Front Right / 420 512 019 Rear Right / 420 512 020 Rear Left), the China version came numbered as 2 units of 420 412 019 and 2 units of 420 512 019.

I queried the seller and he told me to ignore the part numbers and proceed with the install. Apparently the China versions of the shocks are front/rear axle specific only and can be swapped left and right.

Since there are various write-ups on the forum on installation of the shocks, I will skip to the bare essentials. Not much drama during the process apart from having to remove the rear airbox guides which hinder removal of the rear top shock bolt (I reinstalled the bolt the same way it came out as it wasn't difficult to remove that air guide) and having to remove front fender liners, top plastic covers and the windshield wipers and cowl.

Here comes the key bits. Both the new rear shocks were similar in length to the naked eye but have had alterations to the shape of the top mounts which I can only presume that were made so that the shocks would fit on either side of the car. I did not take apart the shock to measure the tube/rod length like Itemup4650 did but doing a quick side by side comparison, it is evident that the shock body of the China version extends further up into the rubber boot which indicates a shorter rod (and travel).

Similarly to Itemup4560's unboxing experience, my new shocks also came with instructions to plug in the magride electrical lead to the car and turning on the ignition to check for faults prior to bolting up and I did that on all 4 corners.

Over at the front, the job was slightly more involved having to remove fender liners as well as all the top plastic cover bits and windshield wipers to gain good access and leverage for the top mount bolt. I noticed some members getting away with just getting at the top bolt from the wheel well area but I could not see how that provided enough leverage to use a torque wrench for the required 110Nm tightening.

Here's where things got curious. With a side-by-side comparison, the front China shock has a shorter body length (and longer rod) compared to my stock shocks although the overall top to bottom length is similar to the eye.

I proceeded with bolting everything up to spec with each corner preloaded with the car's weight (used a jack with a rubber puck to slowly push up the lower ball joint until I saw the body lift ever so slightly from the jack stands) and I would say all 4 shocks were installed with relative ease.

It was already midnight when I buttoned everything up (I started the project at 2p.m.) but I took it out for a spin regardless. I understand that shocks need some running-in especially when kept horizontally for a period of time but my immediate observations were that the springs were slightly softer that my stocks in normal non-sport mode and the ride was too soft for my liking although normal mode has become way more comfortable now.

With sport suspension settings on, I felt the ride stiffen up but the change was not as immediate as the stock shocks which stiffened up in 2 seconds. This felt like it needed a good 5-6 seconds before a difference could be felt. However in sport mode, I would say that the damping was not as aggressive as the original. My guess would be that it was somewhere between 60%-70% of original stiffness in sport. I will report further as the shocks are run-in over the next few weeks.

Sadly after having the shocks replaced I am now getting a clunk from the front right side of the car which can be heard and also felt in the steering column. I'm not discounting the fact that other old suspension components may have given up the ghost due to the stretching involved during installation to line up the shock bolts but I am also suspicious that it may be a faulty shock top mount at play. The noise seems to amplify in sport mode as the ride stiffens but in normal mode it can also be heard when going over uneven roads and crests.

Here's a short video of the noise when driving over a reasonably flat road in sport mode:

Since I'm busy with work this week, it would be a good few days before I can get the car up on jack stands again to check the components. But a hunch is telling me that the noise could be sway bar bushings/links and I have 2 new front sway bar bushings on order and I should get them by tomorrow. I have also preempted the seller of the shocks that 1 may potentially be faulty and that he has to ship me a new replacement should the noise not be resolved. More updates to follow.

 

Thanks for the update. All good info. A pound to a penny it's the shocks that are the culprit. Sounds like these Chinese versions are just not fit for purpose.

 

You pays your price......................

 

I've been following the thread with interest to see how these China aftermarket shocks perform. I just happened to stumble on a new ebay listing for what appears to me a new company that looks like they use OE components to build their parts. I wonder if they're any better?
4x For Audi R8 V8 Front and Rear Suspension Shock Absorbers Struts Magnetic Ride | eBay

 

nice find! This seems like a really good deal if legit. But might be too good to be true...

 

I have been watching this thread. Some things to consider:

• Suspension is Safety Critical
  • if any aspect of the suspension system fails at any speed above a parking lot speed then it has a high potential to result in a very bad day. If you are at highway legal speeds or way above ...like many do without any drama (the R8 is fast with ease) then the chance of a suspension failure leading to an unrecoverable crash is nearly certain.
    • These are not the parts/system to cut cost on
• Way Beyond What you Can See
  • You guys are noting some big visual differences, packaging, shock travel, spring rates, damping behavior and now potential noise
    • However, how this system works together for steering, handling and ride is a big part of the safety even without a part "failure"
      • Do you have confidence this is remotely at the Audi OEM level with this very low cost mag ride option?
    • Material specifications - design and quality - There are some notable structural differences just visually in the spring seats alone affecting the strength, which says nothing about the material specifications and quality control for these parts.
  • Development and Testing - This is the major area that is likely lacking and saves a boatload of money - significant part and full vehicle development and testing for safety and complex vehicle dynamics.

Therefore, from a risk benefit analysis standpoint, for anyone that likes the Mag Rides, but want lower cost, then go with @Nagengast rebuilt options for your nearly 200 mph Supercar.

 

I have been watching this thread. Some things to consider:

• Suspension is Safety Critical
  • if any aspect of the suspension system fails at any speed above a parking lot speed then it has a high potential to result in a very bad day. If you are at highway legal speeds or way above ...like many do without any drama (the R8 is fast with ease) then the chance of a suspension failure leading to an unrecoverable crash is nearly certain.
    • These are not the parts/system to cut cost on
• Way Beyond What you Can See
  • You guys are noting some big visual differences, packaging, shock travel, spring rates, damping behavior and now potential noise
    • However, how this system works together for steering, handling and ride is a big part of the safety even without a part "failure"
      • Do you have confidence this is remotely at the Audi OEM level with this very low cost mag ride option?
    • Material specifications - design and quality - There are some notable structural differences just visually in the spring seats alone affecting the strength, which says nothing about the material specifications and quality control for these parts.
  • Development and Testing - This is the major area that is likely lacking and saves a boatload of money - significant part and full vehicle development and testing for safety and complex vehicle dynamics.

Therefore, from a risk benefit analysis standpoint, for anyone that likes the Mag Rides, but want lower cost, then go with @Nagengast rebuilt options for your nearly 200 mph Supercar.

I definitely agree that the suspension is a critical component linking us to the road similarly to choice of tyres. I have been curious as to how these shocks would perform due to the price point and the fact that they were able to squeeze magnetic ride functionality into the package with brand new springs.

I saw no harm in giving it a try as the cost to me was solely the purchase of the 4 shocks which came to about USD1200 with free UPS shipping to where I am. I do my own work on my car and with my original albeit slightly leaky shocks in storage, I could get them back on the car within half a day.

To me this project was to try those shocks on my own to decide for myself if this was a viable replacement option, again given the low price point compared to OE magrides. There are some of us including myself who are not keen with aftermarket coilover solutions due to losing on-the-fly variable damping control.

For the price I paid I could have easily obtained a set of decent BC Racing coilovers and at least have had a reputable manufacturer's shocks on my car but that's not the point. The point is that I am satisfying my own curiosity over trying these very reasonable replacement options, which if workable would be a great alternative for those with failing shocks.

Are they made with cheaper materials compared to OE? Sure! They even use household cable clips to hold the magride wires. Is the shock body made of cheaper metal? More than likely. But would it explode and shoot out of the wheel well on a freeway? That would be a long shot. They are built just like any shock and to me, they would fail like the original shocks i.e. leak just the same, if not sooner. In my opinion, likely failure modes on these would be gradual loss of damping with varying severity.

Having said all that, I am still keeping my set of 4 original shocks to be refurbished at a later date should I not be able to resolve the noise in the suspension.

 

I seem to recall some one making a similar comment about the previous Chinese ones.

I fail to grasp why anyone would want to fit anything that is detremental to the ride quality and/or handling characteristics of such an accomplished car. As Scott says, if you wish to stick with magrides then Nagengast is the obvious choice.

 

Aftermarket suspension systems aside, the price point of the OE magrides is quite high when compared to other Delphi/BWI produced dampers for other vehicle makes and my opinion is that the $10k-$12k price point does not necessarily translate to cost/complexity of manufacturing or to recoup development costs. There are plenty of OEM dampers for different cars of similar performance and production numbers that sell for much less than the R8 AMR dampers.

The visual differences to the specific damper/springs that I linked (not the ones being installed in the discussion thread) are minimal. They appear to use a Delphi shock body, and OEM Audi cast spring seats. Connector plugs appear to be OEM and springs appear to have the correct color dot codes. The dust boots are definitely not OEM but what, besides the price point, would suggest that they are not using OEM components? I'm certainly not endorsing these replacements but hard to criticize the construction of these shocks based on just price point.

 

What is the OE price point and the OE's and makes for the other vehicles in a similar volume of only about 3000 vehicles per year worldwide on average (~ R8 production). Porsche 911 non-strut PASM?

I went well beyond price for my points worth raising concern in post #25 including "way beyond what you can see". Which is a minimal list of the total. Further an unknown outfit selling (that doesn't even list their name - perhaps its there in fine print somewhere, but I couldn't find it) on eBay and people putting pieces together with zero evidence of engineering a system.

I could write a book in great detail far beyond what I wrote to bring awareness to significant differences between these and OE, but as it is, my chassis engineering points in two posts above were somehow boiled down to a focus on price point. I have been intimately involved in the recall of chassis parts from cast aluminum, for example, due to manufacturing issues that made it through a very rigorous process ahead of production. Manufacturing issues that hurt the structural integrity of the part to allow failure prior to customer delivery with no miles past parking lot speed, yet couldn't be predicted by normal inspection methods of X-ray. Had these parts been driven with any real world loading...

You have confidence in these units because of external appearance and someone printed up labels that look like OE? You believe Audi knows and allows their use of branding on these?

As a sanity check - the Nagengast refurbished/reconditioned OE units are over double the cost of these eBay sold as new units for primarily labor alone in Poland, which is about 75% of the US labor cost (or less). But yes, in the end, this drastically lower price point tells me plenty because of knowing the automotive, specifically chassis, product development process in significant detail to know an awful lot of steps to insure safe, consistent, OE level behavior are being skipped:

• Design for Failure Modes and Effects Analysis (DFMEA)
  • How things can fail and effects of failure
• Design Verification (DV) Analysis and Testing
• Process Failure Modes and Effects Analysis (PFMEA)
  • Manufacturing processes
• Process Verification (PV) Analysis and Testing

in each case these are done for the components, subsystems and the full vehicle. This is an incredible amount of engineering that takes an awful lot of people and money.

I am guessing this won't sway your path, but I am hoping some consider this input and I welcome questions for more specifics on any of it.

 

At the price point of remanufactured units from Poland, you might as well spend a few extra bucks and get KWs/Ohlins/Bilsteins which will ride and handle better and likely never fail again. That's why it doesn't really make financial sense to consider replacing with brand new OEM units and so many folks are interested in these Chinese replacements.

 

This point makes sense regarding the options you note for a little more money. However, this thread and those wanting these Chinese replacements are clearly noting they want the mag ride feature.

 

Polish refurb or Ohlins, the choice is simple for a $100k+, 190/mph car