Audi R8 Forums banner

41 - 60 of 95 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
954 Posts
There is not a difference in ONE gear (as you keep saying only 4th is different), but a difference of FIVE gears, which is significant..... Gears 3-7 are different in the Plus, resulting in faster, more urgent acceleration, even with same power.

V10 (non-plus)
First Gear Ratio )3.13
Second Gear Ratio )2.59

Third Gear Ratio )1.96

Fourth Gear Ratio )1.24
Fifth Gear Ratio )0.98
Sixth Gear Ratio )0.98
Seventh Gear Ratio )0.84

V10 PLUS
First Gear Ratio )3.13
Second Gear Ratio )2.59

Third Gear Ratio )1.88

Fourth Gear Ratio )1.14
Fifth Gear Ratio )0.90
Sixth Gear Ratio )0.88
Seventh Gear Ratio )0.65
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
954 Posts
The advantages are in the shorter gear ratios... 5 shorter gears. It's not hard to understand, what do you need help with?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
The advantages are in the shorter gear ratios... 5 shorter gears. It's not hard to understand, what do you need help with?
Here you go bud knock yourself out, to be clear no one is racing in 6th and 7th gear so you can throw those out.

The first and second gears on the Plus and non-Plus are IDENTICAL. Therefore, there is NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER UNTIL ABOVE 69 MPH. The difference in the third gear is minimal, and only results in a couple hundred RPM difference after the shift. With both the Plus and the non-Plus, the engine remains firmly in its sweet sport after the shift from second to third gear. The difference in the fourth gear is ever smaller.

Audi did NOT change the gearing on the Plus to improve straight-line acceleration. Rather, Audi slightly changed the gearing on the Plus for track driving. The slightly different third and fourth gears enable the car to maintain slightly higher RPMs with the same throttle input, which is beneficial for track driving and acceleration out of turns. The Plus suspension is also designed for improved track driving.

This video is particularly insightful:

The video depicts a side-by-side straight line race between a Plus and a non-Plus. The Plus is .50 seconds faster to 60 mph. The gearing is identical from 0 to 60 mph. Therefore, the .5 second difference is due entirely to the 70 additional HP in the Plus. From 60 to 100 mph, the non-Plus is .10 seconds faster. You read that correctly -- the non-Plus picks up .10 second from 60 to 100 mph. Yet, that is the range where the cars have different gearing. I am not saying that the non-Plus gearing is more advantageous for straight line performance, but it certainly is not disadvantageous. If the different gearing provided an advantage for the Plus in straight line performance, the non-Plus would not have picked up .10 second from 60 to 100 mph (exactly when the gearing changed). To the contrary, the Plus – with 70 additional HP – would have continued to pull away from the non-Plus from 60 to 100 mph. The Plus reaches one kilometer .60 seconds faster than the non-Plus. However, the vast majority of this .60 second gap is achieved before 60 mph, during which the gearing is identical. When the gearing changes above 69 mph, the Plus is not picking up much time. In fact, over 60 mph, the Plus picks up much less time than I would expect given the 70 HP difference. A 70 HP advantage should be worth more than .10 seconds between 60 mph and 160 MPH. The Plus is going 6 mph faster at one kilometer, and will likely pick-up more time between 160-200 mph (my days of driving that fast are long behind me). Again, this is due to the 70 additional HP.

Based on the foregoing, the slightly different third and fourth gears do not appear to provide any benefit to the Plus in a straight-line race. To the contrary, the Plus achieves its straight-line advantage based solely on the 70 additional HP. Moreover, given the .10 second gain achieved by the non-Plus over the Plus between 60-100 mph, one could argue that the different gearing over 69 mph is a disadvantage for the Plus in a straight line race. I am NOT making this argument.

In a straight line race, there is no throttle variation; rather, the driver simply mashes the gas pedal. Therefore, when the shifts occur, the throttle is wide open and the rpms continue to climb immediately after the shift. Track driving/performance is, of course, an entirely different animal. On a track, most shifts occur at something less than WOT, and the rpms do not climb at the same pace following the shift. Therefore, there is a meaningful advantage to landing at a slightly higher rpm following a shift. The slightly higher rpm provides better throttle response and better acceleration out of a turn. On a track, the Plus gearing will provide improved performance over the non-Plus. That is exactly what Audi intended with the different gearing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,151 Posts
LMAO the pissing contest. V10 Plus is a better car. I've driven base and plus back to back. Base gearing is TALL. 7th my RPMs in the plus sit higher than where they are in 6th on the base. When pushing over 600HP a 20HP difference between cars is almost negligible. Better gearing better acceleration. Let the turd slinging fest continue here!!! 🤣
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
954 Posts
^ Ha too true. I have no skin in the game at all, I row my own gears :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
I can only comment on 2020 R8 performance and base driven side by side same gear same speed. The gearing is identical for the 2020 R8 between both versions- they use the ratios from the previous base. Ie tall 7th gear. Although it was a coupe performance vs base spyder ( spyder heavier but did have ceramics) and once the cars hit 6500 rpm the performance pulled away every time regardless of gear. Thus the horsepower makes a difference. Which should imply that a tune makes a difference on the base as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
LMAO the pissing contest. V10 Plus is a better car. I've driven base and plus back to back. Base gearing is TALL. 7th my RPMs in the plus sit higher than where they are in 6th on the base. When pushing over 600HP a 20HP difference between cars is almost negligible. Better gearing better acceleration. Let the turd slinging fest continue here!!! 🤣
No ones arguing the plus isnt the better car than the base, just pointing out that VF tune sucks.
 

·
Registered
2018 Audi R8 V10 Plus Coupe (Suzuka Grey)
Joined
·
40 Posts
I can only comment on 2020 R8 performance and base driven side by side same gear same speed. The gearing is identical for the 2020 R8 between both versions- they use the ratios from the previous base. Ie tall 7th gear. Although it was a coupe performance vs base spyder ( spyder heavier but did have ceramics) and once the cars hit 6500 rpm the performance pulled away every time regardless of gear. Thus the horsepower makes a difference. Which should imply that a tune makes a difference on the base as well.
Didn’t North American 2020 r8 Performances retain their old engine and tranny? Only the European 2020s performances have the longer gearing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
Im not backtracking anything, I showed a data point where a magazine test showed a plus was slower. You sent another magazine test, albeit a video, testing the two. The results were as expected. Im asking you to explain why that race looked exactly the same as the video posted here but with the base car with supposedly 70 more hp.
Because cars act hugely different from an in gear rolling race to an off the line drag
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
This is like working with animals, let me reiterate the point since clearly you dont seem to understand. No one is arguing a stock plus is faster than a stock base, the argument is that a stock plus walking a "tuned" base that hard because it has a 1% shorter 4th gear. Im not sure how much racing you've done but I can tell you from first hand experience that gap looks like the plus car is making over 50hp more, if you think that has to do with a shorter 4th gear you're a moron. The answer here is that VF tune is trash.
FACTS, a tuned base(any iteration) tuned by any aftermarket tuner will be gapped by the 10 + by the same distance , SORRY.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
243 Posts
This thread is going nowhere without dyno sheets of the exact cars in the video, or two cars dyno’d and then raced with GPS draggy units.

Too many subjective opinions/anecdotes/variables, not enough objective data/evidence.

Can we move on now please.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
Hey Winter - your post #41 I think the Plus and Non Plus headings are reversed. Believe the 10+ revs higher in same gear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
954 Posts
^ Maybe, I copy + pasted something i out of order perhaps?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
I would race again and see. Loose or win don’t matter to me. You won that race no doubt about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I honestly wouldn’t rerun as our trap speeds were too far apart,you had one run in my mph range that was invalid because it was a 92mph start vs the 65mph allowed,my car is a factory freak looks like.
 
41 - 60 of 95 Posts
Top